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I had originally assumed that the Leave vote in the UK EU referendum was a protest against neoliberalism, but now I'm beginning to wonder. In a few weeks, vot

I had originally assumed that the Leave vote in the UK EU referendum was a protest against neoliberalism, but now I'm beginning to wonder. In a few weeks, voters in the UK will have the option of voting for a party (Labour) which now opposes neoliberalism, but it's well-behind in the opinion polls. Even if all the progressive votes (Labour, Lib Dems, SNP/Plaid Cymru, Greens) are aggregated, they're still outnumbered by the combined Tory and UKIP vote. I'm beginning to wonder if support for Brexit was mostly just xenophobia, but not many people like to admit to that.

barrkel 9y ago
The election at this point is about nationalism, and is being compounded by an Us-vs-Them narrative as played out (and played up) with the dinner debacle. People who wouldn't normally vote Tory will vote for May because they want to rally around what they perceive as a strong leader against the Other. Obviously with the dinner debacle the EU side's motive was to inject some realism about the weakness of Britain's hand, but May played it the only way she could have. Britain didn't learn the full lesson from World War II: that nationalism is actually a bad thing. Its approach to Europe has been wrong all throughout as a result, and it's compounded by being joined at the hip to US foreign policy. But everywhere else in the world is growing economically, and the West is shrinking as a slice of the overall pie, and this will naturally add to the continuing decline in the US's ability to project its will. The EU is also about creating a larger centre of gravity able to negotiate as an equal to China and the US. It'll take some time for the UK to realize how lonely it is on the outside, especially as protectionism increases - fewer friendly ports on the open sea, and bigger sharks - it's not the best time to be setting sail alone.
- ygaf 9y ago
  While lazily throwing it out there that nationalism is bad, you do acknowledge the benefit of... continentialism?
  - barrkel 9y ago
    Joining a group means taking some responsibility for its governance and good running. Too many politicians use Brussels as a scapegoat, rather than something they own a piece of. So in so far as continentalism refers to an agglomeration of different peoples trying to speak with one voice, like US, China, Russia, EU - the thing only works if people don't get too cynical about the centre. I don't think there's much alternative to joining a larger political entity if you're geographically near one, given what we know about economic links and distances. A possible advantage of something like the EU is that it doesn't have a cohesive enough identity to think nationalistically and get into trouble that way.

barrkel 9y ago

The election at this point is about nationalism, and is being compounded by an Us-vs-Them narrative as played out (and played up) with the dinner debacle. People who wouldn't normally vote Tory will vote for May because they want to rally around what they perceive as a strong leader against the Other. Obviously with the dinner debacle the EU side's motive was to inject some realism about the weakness of Britain's hand, but May played it the only way she could have. Britain didn't learn the full lesson from World War II: that nationalism is actually a bad thing. Its approach to Europe has been wrong all throughout as a result, and it's compounded by being joined at the hip to US foreign policy. But everywhere else in the world is growing economically, and the West is shrinking as a slice of the overall pie, and this will naturally add to the continuing decline in the US's ability to project its will. The EU is also about creating a larger centre of gravity able to negotiate as an equal to China and the US. It'll take some time for the UK to realize how lonely it is on the outside, especially as protectionism increases - fewer friendly ports on the open sea, and bigger sharks - it's not the best time to be setting sail alone.

ygaf 9y ago
While lazily throwing it out there that nationalism is bad, you do acknowledge the benefit of... continentialism?
- barrkel 9y ago
  Joining a group means taking some responsibility for its governance and good running. Too many politicians use Brussels as a scapegoat, rather than something they own a piece of. So in so far as continentalism refers to an agglomeration of different peoples trying to speak with one voice, like US, China, Russia, EU - the thing only works if people don't get too cynical about the centre. I don't think there's much alternative to joining a larger political entity if you're geographically near one, given what we know about economic links and distances. A possible advantage of something like the EU is that it doesn't have a cohesive enough identity to think nationalistically and get into trouble that way.