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I've never had to send more than an email. > Hey Frank, just read through the non-compete and I have a few small changes. 1. Since we're only working on a prot

I've never had to send more than an email. > Hey Frank, just read through the non-compete and I have a few small changes. 1. Since we're only working on a proto-type for a classifier for sorting documents can we amend the non-compete to specifically mention that domain? I don't want to limit my options unnecessarily but I appreciate you wanting to stop me from turning around and selling this stuff to Microsoft once you're done. 2. The term is unlimited right now, which I'm not even sure if that can stand up in court. Let's cap it at 2 years from project completion or my leaving the project. If it's easier for you to just agree to these changes over email just reply by saying "Sure Zach, these changes are completely reasonable." and I'll sign and add "with agreed changes" next to my signature. That will 100% stand up in court, and really if they say "no" to it then you say "no" to the opportunity, but I've never not been able to get to an agreement with someone. Good help is hard to find, and a little charisma goes a long way when negotiating.

etjossem 10y ago
Restricting the noncompete to cover only a very narrow domain can work too. Depending on how specialized you are, that might not be enough, which is why I recommend conceding only term-of-employment. Your example sounds perfectly fine! But if you've spent decades building "3D animation engines for games" at various companies that do so - and that's basically your career now - you won't be helped much by being specific about what type of work is considered competition. YMMV, so concede only in ways that leave your options open.
AnkhMorporkian 10y ago
I'm 100% with you, an email is all it usually takes, but most people don't realize that. When your life and blood depends on competing with the people you work with, it's very simple to say "no." But when you're just getting a start and think that "this contract is life or death"? It's a non-starter, you would never think of negotiating it. It makes more sense for them to simply be illegal than negotiable for that very reason.
- trowawee 10y ago
  Huh...I actually did this when I got out of a developer bootcamp in 2014/2015. I come from a family of lawyers; redlining a contract is second nature. Data point of one, but I think it's more a cultural norm - there's a strong norm in American society, in particular, against negotiating. Funny how well that works out for the people who control the capital and don't have any issues ignoring that norm. They should be illegal, but more people should start more conversations with a negotiating mindset as well.
Buttons840 10y ago
It may be advantageous to purposely avoid an in person discussion of the contract (especially with an HR person who couldn't care less if you're hired or not), and then bring it up in an email. Because an email allows you to fully explain your position before being interrupted with something like "it's a standard contract" which would tend to shut down an in person conversation.
- vacri 10y ago
  > "it's a standard contract" For my current gig as a linux sysadmin I was hired a couple of years ago, and handed a standard employee contract. There was a clause in there that I agreed not to install free software on my work computer. The clause was just there for tech naives who might install any old crap, but it was funny for a linux professional. There was zero trouble amending the 'standard contract' to get rid of that clause. :) In any case, you can bet your booties that the higher up the food chain you go, the less people get a 'standard' contract and the more it's tailored individually to them.

etjossem 10y ago

Restricting the noncompete to cover only a very narrow domain can work too. Depending on how specialized you are, that might not be enough, which is why I recommend conceding only term-of-employment. Your example sounds perfectly fine! But if you've spent decades building "3D animation engines for games" at various companies that do so - and that's basically your career now - you won't be helped much by being specific about what type of work is considered competition. YMMV, so concede only in ways that leave your options open.

AnkhMorporkian 10y ago

I'm 100% with you, an email is all it usually takes, but most people don't realize that. When your life and blood depends on competing with the people you work with, it's very simple to say "no." But when you're just getting a start and think that "this contract is life or death"? It's a non-starter, you would never think of negotiating it. It makes more sense for them to simply be illegal than negotiable for that very reason.

trowawee 10y ago
Huh...I actually did this when I got out of a developer bootcamp in 2014/2015. I come from a family of lawyers; redlining a contract is second nature. Data point of one, but I think it's more a cultural norm - there's a strong norm in American society, in particular, against negotiating. Funny how well that works out for the people who control the capital and don't have any issues ignoring that norm. They should be illegal, but more people should start more conversations with a negotiating mindset as well.

Buttons840 10y ago

It may be advantageous to purposely avoid an in person discussion of the contract (especially with an HR person who couldn't care less if you're hired or not), and then bring it up in an email. Because an email allows you to fully explain your position before being interrupted with something like "it's a standard contract" which would tend to shut down an in person conversation.

vacri 10y ago
> "it's a standard contract" For my current gig as a linux sysadmin I was hired a couple of years ago, and handed a standard employee contract. There was a clause in there that I agreed not to install free software on my work computer. The clause was just there for tech naives who might install any old crap, but it was funny for a linux professional. There was zero trouble amending the 'standard contract' to get rid of that clause. :) In any case, you can bet your booties that the higher up the food chain you go, the less people get a 'standard' contract and the more it's tailored individually to them.