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After I read in 2011 that funk musician Bootsy Collins' nephew died because he couldn't afford antibiotics for a tooth infection the fact really stuck with me.

by firasd 9y ago

After I read in 2011 that funk musician Bootsy Collins' nephew died because he couldn't afford antibiotics for a tooth infection the fact really stuck with me. It really puts in perspective statements like “Nobody dies because they don’t have access to health care”, said by a politician just last week.

quickben 9y ago
What do you mean. Lots of people die because of lack of health care acess. Just look at the life expectancies in the undeveloped parts of the planet.
- firasd 9y ago
  Well the politician was suggesting that if you lose health insurance in America you won't die because you can show up to the emergency room in hospitals. The statement was widely panned, and I especially find it absurd given the fact that you can die from a toothache. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/05/06/nobody-dies-because-they-dont-have-access-to-health-care-gop-lawmaker-says-he-got-booed/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/05/06/...
snappyTertle 9y ago
That's so sad. Why should politicians decide health care access. The system is so messed up. Government regulation has caused price for health care to sky rocket. And now we have to beg them to be a 3rd party payer just so we can "afford" it.
pkaye 9y ago
Walmart has Amoxicillin, a commonly prescribed antibiotic for tooth infection for $4 for a month supply. https://www.walmart.com/cp/4-dollar-presscriptions/1078664 https://www.walmart.com/cp/4-dollar-presscriptions/1078664 They have quite a few common generics all for the same low price. The generic medications are often times cheap but the catch is you need a doctor's prescription and that is where it costs.
- konschubert 9y ago
  I'm not from the United States, so I have to ask: is amoxicillin available without prescription?
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    No. Well, maybe in pet stores. I'm not sure what exactly an ER would do. I guess they would write a prescription without worrying about whether the patient would pay for the visit. (There are requirements for certain types of facilities to provide stabilizing treatment without requiring payment; I simply don't know whether the prescription would be part of that.)
  - gt2 9y ago
    no
  - kakarot 9y ago
    Online, you can purchase fish or cow antibiotics with purportedly the same stuff, but these are not medical grade and I have heard stories (not sure if it is big pharma propaganda or not) of dangerous impurities. It is probably best for species survival that we keep antibiotics behind a wall. But only if that wall comes down when people need it, not only when they pay the toll.
- drewg123 9y ago
  The key word is "prescribed". That means that in order to get this $4 drug to save your life, you have to go to a medical provider for a prescription. If you're poor, you likely will not have a normal doctor or dentist, and going to an ER could leave you with crippling debt. If you don't realize your problem is serious enough to kill you, the rational choice is to suffer until it clears up on its own. I'm not advocating that people be able to purchase antibiotics without a prescription -- that would lead to more drug resistance. However, I do think that states should consider allowing pharmacists to do more, such as allowing them to prescribe medications in "simple" cases like this. Pharmacists are the most underutilized medical professionals that we have, and using them more effectively could have a big impact.
kakarot 9y ago
That's so sad :( I can heavily empathize. In the last 4 years I've had at least 4 life-threatening infections. 2 of them related to dental health, 2 of them unrelated and both leading to temporary paralysis. I couldn't afford insurance and you know how expensive antibiotics are (and dental treatment, of course). Each time I had to either resort to finding and buying antibiotics on the street or dying within a day or two. I feel so blessed to even be alive today that it brings me to tears. And then I think about how CorpGov tried everything they could to prevent people like me from having access to healthcare, how I came within hours of death 4 different times and was not provided aid once, and how often this must happen to people who are not as committed and resourceful as I was. I vividly remember being paralyzed on my bed, only being able to really move my left arm, literally watching an infection travel through my bloodstream as my veins turned red and inflamed, my lungs beginning to feel hard, crying to myself, and falling asleep not knowing if the antibiotics I had found only hours before would kick in and if I would ever wake up again. That is the healthcare system in America :) Yes, it may not be as bad as most of Africa's healthcare system, but our government repeatedly makes the claim that we are the best and greatest nation on earth, with unparalleled opportunity for its citizens. If we are going to make that claim, the claim that we are a 1st world country and not a 3rd world country, we have to be able to back it up.
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  I know this is going to sound like victim-blaming to some, but I'm genuinely just horrified / curious: why didn't you go to the ER? Or to an urgent care clinic like many drugstores have now? And was this something that you needed special antibiotics for? Because the generic ones are pretty cheap, from what I understand. Again, I'm NOT an apologist for the system we have, but I don't understand how it got to this point for you.
  - kakarot 9y ago
    it's ok, it's a legitimate question. it's just a bit hard to answer without sounding like I'm victimizing myself because people tend to feel like when enough bad things happen to someone it must partially be their fault. But here is a tldr. I had a bullshit drug conviction from high school when an underage and unlicensed driver rear-ended my friend and I and he had a small amount of pot in his booksack that I didn't know about. The case took two years and about eight appearances, six or so conflicting testimonials by officers present at the scene, and I was given the maximum penalty possible. I couldn't get a decent job because of the charge and I was being extorted monthly for money by the government. I had no support from family and ended up taking what I could as far as housing arrangements, leading to me getting robbed about half a dozen times by various roommates over the years for a total of a few thousand dollars. I was still learning CS in my free time so I was limited to part time minimum wage jobs and had no disposable income. I developed heart palpitations and visited the ER, but they laughed at me and gave me a bunch of useless crap and scans related to my lungs, didn't look at my heart, then gave me a receipt for a sum that vastly outweighed what I was told I would be expected to pay. I was diagnosed with costochondritis, and amazingly, because I mentioned I had smoked marijuana before in my life, I was also diagnosed with "marijuana abuse". I have not paid this medical bill and I consider the experience insulting and unprofessional. My sister later developed heart palpitations as well, and when she visited the ER she was also discharged with costochondritis. She also owes a hefty hospital bill now. Neither of us know what is wrong with us and have ~1k of debt to show for it. Neither of us can afford more debt because we look in fear at the debt our mother has yet to pay off. Without insurance or a health care credit card with high interest rates, you're usually expected to pay up front for health care. When I had these dental emergencies and blood infections, I never had enough money up front for the healthcare due to the circumstances described above, and I was not going to rack up another 1k in the ER just to get antibiotics. So it always ended up being only feasible to source them through both friends (who shouldn't have leftover antibiotics) and actual antibiotic distributors.

by firasd 9y ago

quickben 9y ago

What do you mean. Lots of people die because of lack of health care acess. Just look at the life expectancies in the undeveloped parts of the planet.

firasd 9y ago
Well the politician was suggesting that if you lose health insurance in America you won't die because you can show up to the emergency room in hospitals. The statement was widely panned, and I especially find it absurd given the fact that you can die from a toothache. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/05/06/nobody-dies-because-they-dont-have-access-to-health-care-gop-lawmaker-says-he-got-booed/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/05/06/...

snappyTertle 9y ago

That's so sad. Why should politicians decide health care access. The system is so messed up. Government regulation has caused price for health care to sky rocket. And now we have to beg them to be a 3rd party payer just so we can "afford" it.

pkaye 9y ago

Walmart has Amoxicillin, a commonly prescribed antibiotic for tooth infection for $4 for a month supply. https://www.walmart.com/cp/4-dollar-presscriptions/1078664 https://www.walmart.com/cp/4-dollar-presscriptions/1078664 They have quite a few common generics all for the same low price. The generic medications are often times cheap but the catch is you need a doctor's prescription and that is where it costs.

konschubert 9y ago
I'm not from the United States, so I have to ask: is amoxicillin available without prescription?
- maxerickson 9y ago
  No. Well, maybe in pet stores. I'm not sure what exactly an ER would do. I guess they would write a prescription without worrying about whether the patient would pay for the visit. (There are requirements for certain types of facilities to provide stabilizing treatment without requiring payment; I simply don't know whether the prescription would be part of that.)
- gt2 9y ago
  no
- kakarot 9y ago
  Online, you can purchase fish or cow antibiotics with purportedly the same stuff, but these are not medical grade and I have heard stories (not sure if it is big pharma propaganda or not) of dangerous impurities. It is probably best for species survival that we keep antibiotics behind a wall. But only if that wall comes down when people need it, not only when they pay the toll.
drewg123 9y ago
The key word is "prescribed". That means that in order to get this $4 drug to save your life, you have to go to a medical provider for a prescription. If you're poor, you likely will not have a normal doctor or dentist, and going to an ER could leave you with crippling debt. If you don't realize your problem is serious enough to kill you, the rational choice is to suffer until it clears up on its own. I'm not advocating that people be able to purchase antibiotics without a prescription -- that would lead to more drug resistance. However, I do think that states should consider allowing pharmacists to do more, such as allowing them to prescribe medications in "simple" cases like this. Pharmacists are the most underutilized medical professionals that we have, and using them more effectively could have a big impact.

kakarot 9y ago

That's so sad :( I can heavily empathize. In the last 4 years I've had at least 4 life-threatening infections. 2 of them related to dental health, 2 of them unrelated and both leading to temporary paralysis. I couldn't afford insurance and you know how expensive antibiotics are (and dental treatment, of course). Each time I had to either resort to finding and buying antibiotics on the street or dying within a day or two. I feel so blessed to even be alive today that it brings me to tears. And then I think about how CorpGov tried everything they could to prevent people like me from having access to healthcare, how I came within hours of death 4 different times and was not provided aid once, and how often this must happen to people who are not as committed and resourceful as I was. I vividly remember being paralyzed on my bed, only being able to really move my left arm, literally watching an infection travel through my bloodstream as my veins turned red and inflamed, my lungs beginning to feel hard, crying to myself, and falling asleep not knowing if the antibiotics I had found only hours before would kick in and if I would ever wake up again. That is the healthcare system in America :) Yes, it may not be as bad as most of Africa's healthcare system, but our government repeatedly makes the claim that we are the best and greatest nation on earth, with unparalleled opportunity for its citizens. If we are going to make that claim, the claim that we are a 1st world country and not a 3rd world country, we have to be able to back it up.

ryanwaggoner 9y ago
I know this is going to sound like victim-blaming to some, but I'm genuinely just horrified / curious: why didn't you go to the ER? Or to an urgent care clinic like many drugstores have now? And was this something that you needed special antibiotics for? Because the generic ones are pretty cheap, from what I understand. Again, I'm NOT an apologist for the system we have, but I don't understand how it got to this point for you.
- kakarot 9y ago
  it's ok, it's a legitimate question. it's just a bit hard to answer without sounding like I'm victimizing myself because people tend to feel like when enough bad things happen to someone it must partially be their fault. But here is a tldr. I had a bullshit drug conviction from high school when an underage and unlicensed driver rear-ended my friend and I and he had a small amount of pot in his booksack that I didn't know about. The case took two years and about eight appearances, six or so conflicting testimonials by officers present at the scene, and I was given the maximum penalty possible. I couldn't get a decent job because of the charge and I was being extorted monthly for money by the government. I had no support from family and ended up taking what I could as far as housing arrangements, leading to me getting robbed about half a dozen times by various roommates over the years for a total of a few thousand dollars. I was still learning CS in my free time so I was limited to part time minimum wage jobs and had no disposable income. I developed heart palpitations and visited the ER, but they laughed at me and gave me a bunch of useless crap and scans related to my lungs, didn't look at my heart, then gave me a receipt for a sum that vastly outweighed what I was told I would be expected to pay. I was diagnosed with costochondritis, and amazingly, because I mentioned I had smoked marijuana before in my life, I was also diagnosed with "marijuana abuse". I have not paid this medical bill and I consider the experience insulting and unprofessional. My sister later developed heart palpitations as well, and when she visited the ER she was also discharged with costochondritis. She also owes a hefty hospital bill now. Neither of us know what is wrong with us and have ~1k of debt to show for it. Neither of us can afford more debt because we look in fear at the debt our mother has yet to pay off. Without insurance or a health care credit card with high interest rates, you're usually expected to pay up front for health care. When I had these dental emergencies and blood infections, I never had enough money up front for the healthcare due to the circumstances described above, and I was not going to rack up another 1k in the ER just to get antibiotics. So it always ended up being only feasible to source them through both friends (who shouldn't have leftover antibiotics) and actual antibiotic distributors.