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Once the US has its own Reichstag fire I'm sure we'll promptly follow suit.

by pstuart 10y ago

jimmywanger 10y ago
Godwined in the first comment! Do you have any analysis or insight to add? EDIT: For example, you could argue that this doesn't really matter any more, as Maduro already has de-facto control of the supreme court. Probably a reason this is frowned upon in other societies is that there is a independent judiciary, and military courts ultimately report to the President in the chain of command. But NAZIHITLERNAZIWHARRGARBL.
copperheart 10y ago
We can only hope.
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  It wasn't a good thing.
  - ue_ 10y ago
    It depends; perhaps it will push people to realise that the current system of affairs is broken, and then to push people to a revolution.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      The trouble with revolutions is you just end up with a new set of leaders.
      - pleboidal 10y ago
        And dead people, and destroyed cities. And purges, and violent warlords siezing power, and military coups. And refugees, and food shortages, and torture chambers, and sabotage. And unprecedented political polarization, and oh maybe disappearances and murders that look like suicides...
        ue_ 10y ago
        As much as I would like to achieve Socialism via democratic reform within the system, various figures (Emma Goldman, Lenin, Rosa Luxemburg, even Engels himself) have noted that working within the existing system ("bourgeois democracy") would not be sufficient to bring about lasting change, as the system itself is built to serve the interests of capital. I am wholly against the things you mentioned, of course, which is why it has been the task of current revolutionaries to plan and organise effectively to minimise these things.
        tim333 10y ago
        > working within the existing system ("bourgeois democracy") would not be sufficient to bring about lasting change, as the system itself is built to serve the interests of capital. I think the problem is more that when you do vote in socialism as in Venezuela the system sucks. Then it either gets voted out again or you get a violent dictatorship.
        ue_ 10y ago
        Venezuela is not a Socialist country, and I do not support dictatorships. In line with Marx and Engels, I support the gradual transference of power away from the state (which must be at once transformed into the complete and democratic control of the whole working class upon seizure) and into the hands of the people, as such the state "withers away".
        tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        Where has that not fallen into dictatorship? It's a nice idea, the problem is human nature gets in the way.
        Pica_soO 10y ago
        They just never really read the Scottsman-scrolls right and how could they thus do a true implementation of the Scottsmann ideology!
      - Terr_ 10y ago
        Relevant Terry Pratchett quote regarding revolutions: > People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. > And so the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people. -- Night Watch
        Pica_soO 10y ago
        I love this book. Its so- human, so deeply human. Everything falls apart, and Pratchett could have been cynical, and mocked the whole endeavor of regime change - turning Ankh Morpork into a blood bath- instead, he put grandmothers on the barricades (mind where you put the good furniture!) and the whole civil war afair ended in a happy little turmoil with free steaks and not free pasty (i m obviously ruining myself here). Always think of that book smelling Syringa I always read that book when i despair about the species, or im hyped by something and want to get down to earth.
tim333 10y ago
I'm quite impressed how the US division of powers has held up against the present president so far. It kind of shows how valuable checks and balances can be. It's also been entertaining to watch. I'm looking forward to the next episode after the will the president be able to stop the investigation by firing the FBI head cliffhanger.
- jjeaff 10y ago
  I just wish this show was more realistic. Everyone knows you can't just fire the head of the FBI for investigating you. It would be way too obvious.
FrozenVoid 10y ago
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, Pub.L. 112–81. This NDAA contains several controversial sections (see article), the chief being §§ 1021-1022, which affirm provisions authorizing the indefinite military detention of civilians, including U.S. citizens, without habeas corpus or due process, contained in the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub.L. 107–40.[6] http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/ndaas_indefinite_detention_without_trial_returns/ http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/ndaas_indefinite_detention_w...

Once the US has its own Reichstag fire I'm sure we'll promptly follow suit.

by pstuart 10y ago

Once the US has its own Reichstag fire I'm sure we'll promptly follow suit.

Godwined in the first comment! Do you have any analysis or insight to add? EDIT: For example, you could argue that this doesn't really matter any more, as Maduro already has de-facto control of the supreme court. Probably a reason this is frowned upon in other societies is that there is a independent judiciary, and military courts ultimately report to the President in the chain of command. But NAZIHITLERNAZIWHARRGARBL.

copperheart 10y ago

We can only hope.

tonyedgecombe 10y ago
It wasn't a good thing.
- ue_ 10y ago
  It depends; perhaps it will push people to realise that the current system of affairs is broken, and then to push people to a revolution.
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    The trouble with revolutions is you just end up with a new set of leaders.
    - pleboidal 10y ago
      And dead people, and destroyed cities. And purges, and violent warlords siezing power, and military coups. And refugees, and food shortages, and torture chambers, and sabotage. And unprecedented political polarization, and oh maybe disappearances and murders that look like suicides...
      - ue_ 10y ago
        As much as I would like to achieve Socialism via democratic reform within the system, various figures (Emma Goldman, Lenin, Rosa Luxemburg, even Engels himself) have noted that working within the existing system ("bourgeois democracy") would not be sufficient to bring about lasting change, as the system itself is built to serve the interests of capital. I am wholly against the things you mentioned, of course, which is why it has been the task of current revolutionaries to plan and organise effectively to minimise these things.
        tim333 10y ago
        > working within the existing system ("bourgeois democracy") would not be sufficient to bring about lasting change, as the system itself is built to serve the interests of capital. I think the problem is more that when you do vote in socialism as in Venezuela the system sucks. Then it either gets voted out again or you get a violent dictatorship.
        ue_ 10y ago
        Venezuela is not a Socialist country, and I do not support dictatorships. In line with Marx and Engels, I support the gradual transference of power away from the state (which must be at once transformed into the complete and democratic control of the whole working class upon seizure) and into the hands of the people, as such the state "withers away".
        tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        Where has that not fallen into dictatorship? It's a nice idea, the problem is human nature gets in the way.
        Pica_soO 10y ago
        They just never really read the Scottsman-scrolls right and how could they thus do a true implementation of the Scottsmann ideology!
    - Terr_ 10y ago
      Relevant Terry Pratchett quote regarding revolutions: > People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed, in any case. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. > And so the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people. -- Night Watch
      - Pica_soO 10y ago
        I love this book. Its so- human, so deeply human. Everything falls apart, and Pratchett could have been cynical, and mocked the whole endeavor of regime change - turning Ankh Morpork into a blood bath- instead, he put grandmothers on the barricades (mind where you put the good furniture!) and the whole civil war afair ended in a happy little turmoil with free steaks and not free pasty (i m obviously ruining myself here). Always think of that book smelling Syringa I always read that book when i despair about the species, or im hyped by something and want to get down to earth.

tim333 10y ago

I'm quite impressed how the US division of powers has held up against the present president so far. It kind of shows how valuable checks and balances can be. It's also been entertaining to watch. I'm looking forward to the next episode after the will the president be able to stop the investigation by firing the FBI head cliffhanger.

jjeaff 10y ago
I just wish this show was more realistic. Everyone knows you can't just fire the head of the FBI for investigating you. It would be way too obvious.

FrozenVoid 10y ago

National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, Pub.L. 112–81. This NDAA contains several controversial sections (see article), the chief being §§ 1021-1022, which affirm provisions authorizing the indefinite military detention of civilians, including U.S. citizens, without habeas corpus or due process, contained in the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub.L. 107–40.[6] http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/ndaas_indefinite_detention_without_trial_returns/ http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/ndaas_indefinite_detention_w...