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I don't like the other responses to your comment. > It's an incitement to violence No, it's not. Otherwise, wouldn't that imply we should outlaw being mean al

I don't like the other responses to your comment. > It's an incitement to violence No, it's not. Otherwise, wouldn't that imply we should outlaw being mean altogether? Is being mean always an incitement for violence? Yes/No? I think it's clear, it's not. > it's horrifically bad for the mental health Citation needed. > as a form of discrimination against those people Again, no. Discrimination requires that it be 'unjust or prejudicial treatment', hate speech does not. Hate speech could be as little as explaining factual reasons you don't like another race.

blamarvt 9y ago
> Hate speech could be as little as explaining factual reasons you don't like another race. Part of the problem in this discussion seems to be that people have different definitions of 'hate speech'. That definition could be applicable to their country of origin or personal belief but it's pretty clear that definitions aren't even remotely compatible and it makes any sort of level-headed debate very difficult.
- johnnyhillbilly 9y ago
  The real problem is that the concept of "hate speech" is nonsensical. It is a term created exactly to polarize debates and prevent rational discourse. Calmly explain that to any one that attempts to use the term - or ask them to clarify exactly what they mean. We must reject politically engineered attempts to ruin the public debate.
ItendToDisagree 9y ago
If someone is yelling "Kill all $racialslur" are they practicing hate speech yet? They are most certainly openly advocating violence against a specific group not just "being mean" Hate speech can indeed be quantified. Though definitions will vary (as with anything.)
- shawndumas 9y ago
  So if a University Professor said, "$race people may need to die to achieve $goal" would that be free speech or hate speech?
- stale2002 9y ago
  Incitement to violence, specifically saying stuff like "kill all X, tomorrow, and at this location" should and IS already illegal. We don't need hate speech to cover that. That's just called incitement to violence.
  - eridius 9y ago
    Incitement to violence requires intent for the violence to actually occur. I believe this distinction is why you get things like pastors of megachurches who advocate for the idea that all gay people deserve to be killed, but they're not actually intending for any specific act to be carried out and therefore aren't technically inciting violence.
k-mcgrady 9y ago
You're taking your own definition of 'hate speech' which is irrelevant mostly. The important definition if you have an issue with laws limiting speech (through limits on hate speech) is the definition used by those. In most western democracies speech is only limited to prevent, as the parent said, incitement to violence and even then there should be protections in place to prevent abuse of those laws (and there are). >> No, it's not. Otherwise, wouldn't that imply we should outlaw being mean altogether? I don't understand what you're trying to imply here, it doesn't seem to make sense. Being mean could be telling someone they look ugly in those clothes. No incitement to violence. "All minority are evil, kill all *minority" would be an incitement to violence. Pretty clear cut. Being 'mean' has nothing to do with it. >> Hate speech could be as little as explaining factual reasons you don't like another race. Citation needed. Where is this law or definition of hate speech?

blamarvt 9y ago

> Hate speech could be as little as explaining factual reasons you don't like another race. Part of the problem in this discussion seems to be that people have different definitions of 'hate speech'. That definition could be applicable to their country of origin or personal belief but it's pretty clear that definitions aren't even remotely compatible and it makes any sort of level-headed debate very difficult.

johnnyhillbilly 9y ago
The real problem is that the concept of "hate speech" is nonsensical. It is a term created exactly to polarize debates and prevent rational discourse. Calmly explain that to any one that attempts to use the term - or ask them to clarify exactly what they mean. We must reject politically engineered attempts to ruin the public debate.

ItendToDisagree 9y ago

If someone is yelling "Kill all $racialslur" are they practicing hate speech yet? They are most certainly openly advocating violence against a specific group not just "being mean" Hate speech can indeed be quantified. Though definitions will vary (as with anything.)

shawndumas 9y ago
So if a University Professor said, "$race people may need to die to achieve $goal" would that be free speech or hate speech?
stale2002 9y ago
Incitement to violence, specifically saying stuff like "kill all X, tomorrow, and at this location" should and IS already illegal. We don't need hate speech to cover that. That's just called incitement to violence.
- eridius 9y ago
  Incitement to violence requires intent for the violence to actually occur. I believe this distinction is why you get things like pastors of megachurches who advocate for the idea that all gay people deserve to be killed, but they're not actually intending for any specific act to be carried out and therefore aren't technically inciting violence.

k-mcgrady 9y ago

You're taking your own definition of 'hate speech' which is irrelevant mostly. The important definition if you have an issue with laws limiting speech (through limits on hate speech) is the definition used by those. In most western democracies speech is only limited to prevent, as the parent said, incitement to violence and even then there should be protections in place to prevent abuse of those laws (and there are). >> No, it's not. Otherwise, wouldn't that imply we should outlaw being mean altogether? I don't understand what you're trying to imply here, it doesn't seem to make sense. Being mean could be telling someone they look ugly in those clothes. No incitement to violence. "All minority are evil, kill all *minority" would be an incitement to violence. Pretty clear cut. Being 'mean' has nothing to do with it. >> Hate speech could be as little as explaining factual reasons you don't like another race. Citation needed. Where is this law or definition of hate speech?