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That really depends. Can you imagine photoshop's interface if it were all text? This is an extreme example but more generally I think text is better for discove

by yoz-y 10y ago

That really depends. Can you imagine photoshop's interface if it were all text? This is an extreme example but more generally I think text is better for discoverability but icons are better for visual memory and thus better suited for buttons in applications you use often. On desktop there are always tool tips. On touch interfaces this was not yet figured out.

everyone 10y ago
Yeah. Well put. I guess poor use of pictograms in mobile and wep-apps is becoming so common these days it made my original comment a bit lopsided. Ive used a lot of programs like Autocad, Photoshop, 3DSmax, Ableton, Reason, Cubase and so on. Icons + tooltips are a great solution in that context. When you are just starting off you use the tooltips, later you know what each symbol means, and after more experience you can perform all your most common tasks with keyboard shortcuts. Autocad is particularly good for that. You can make an entire drawing with just the keyboard, it makes sense because youre making an accurate measured drawing so will want to type in all the dimensions/angles anyway.
noxToken 10y ago
Android has toast messages baked in. When you long press something, it can display a small tooltip at the bottom with the message. Toasts disappear automatically, and they are dismissable with another touch event. iOS doesn't have the equivalent by default, but Stack Overflow shows that this behavior is achievable.
user5994461 10y ago
That's why the ribbon interface came to existence in office. Much bigger than the traditional menu bar. Enough room to have big meaningful pictures and a text.
- gnaritas 10y ago
  You mean the one that is nearly universally hated? Those ribbons were a huge mistake and fuck you to users who knew how to use the software; it sucks.
  - LoSboccacc 10y ago
    The UX idea wasn't bad but the arbitrary grouping and the deep nesting ruined it. They did not give enough thought to the user workflow and mental process to locate things (i.e. Why inserting and deleting a row had a completely different workflow at the beginning)
    - gnaritas 10y ago
      What they didn't give a thought too, was that this wasn't a new product and you can't drastically change things like that when you have a large existing user base that rely on your product day in and day out. They functionally broke the product for most of their users; I've never heard anyone in the word place compliment it, it's universally hated. The only people who seem to like it are designers, who frankly tend to come off as clueless to what real users just trying to get a job done actually want.
grimmdude 10y ago
I feel like icons can encourage application exploration too, which could be a good thing.
jv22222 10y ago
I did a workup of the iphone with no icons and just text: http://justinvincent.com/page/2387/if-the-iphone-used-text-labels-instead-of-icons http://justinvincent.com/page/2387/if-the-iphone-used-text-l... It shows just how stark an interface can look without them.
- zellyn 10y ago
  This is a fantastic refutation of the idea that text is best. You have to read the whole thing to figure out where to tap. Nicely done!
  - dkersten 10y ago
    I disagree. I mean, yes, the icons look much, much nicer, but the text I can understand much easier. For example, desprite owning an iPhone myself, after looking at that comparison, I just realised that I had actually never used (nor really knew what they meant) what the "do not disturb", "timer" or "calculator" icons were. I've always navigated to calculator and timer from the apps on the home screen (and have never used do not disturb). I'm not saying that Apple should change the icons, not at all. Just that I don't think this is a refutation of the idea that text is best at all. If anything, it shows that text is much more descoverable and understandable, if a good bit uglier (and less compact). I do think that icons are the right choice for the iPhone, and once you learn the icons there's no problem (as long as they don't get changed!), but its not as clear cut as you seem to be saying. I'm forever confused by non-standard various unlabelled icons all over the place. I also have no idea what most of the articles in the linked article mean (eg the washing machine/clothes icons -- I still don't know what they mean when I see them on clothes!)
    - socialentp 10y ago
      I think Apple Mail actually strikes the right balance here. There are icons, but they have text below them by default. If you want a cleaner interface once you are able to easily identify the feature by the icons, you can right-click and turn off the text. It's like training wheels for the UI. I used the text labels until I no longer needed them, and now I only use the icons.

by yoz-y 10y ago

everyone 10y ago

Yeah. Well put. I guess poor use of pictograms in mobile and wep-apps is becoming so common these days it made my original comment a bit lopsided. Ive used a lot of programs like Autocad, Photoshop, 3DSmax, Ableton, Reason, Cubase and so on. Icons + tooltips are a great solution in that context. When you are just starting off you use the tooltips, later you know what each symbol means, and after more experience you can perform all your most common tasks with keyboard shortcuts. Autocad is particularly good for that. You can make an entire drawing with just the keyboard, it makes sense because youre making an accurate measured drawing so will want to type in all the dimensions/angles anyway.

noxToken 10y ago

Android has toast messages baked in. When you long press something, it can display a small tooltip at the bottom with the message. Toasts disappear automatically, and they are dismissable with another touch event. iOS doesn't have the equivalent by default, but Stack Overflow shows that this behavior is achievable.

user5994461 10y ago

That's why the ribbon interface came to existence in office. Much bigger than the traditional menu bar. Enough room to have big meaningful pictures and a text.

gnaritas 10y ago
You mean the one that is nearly universally hated? Those ribbons were a huge mistake and fuck you to users who knew how to use the software; it sucks.
- LoSboccacc 10y ago
  The UX idea wasn't bad but the arbitrary grouping and the deep nesting ruined it. They did not give enough thought to the user workflow and mental process to locate things (i.e. Why inserting and deleting a row had a completely different workflow at the beginning)
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    What they didn't give a thought too, was that this wasn't a new product and you can't drastically change things like that when you have a large existing user base that rely on your product day in and day out. They functionally broke the product for most of their users; I've never heard anyone in the word place compliment it, it's universally hated. The only people who seem to like it are designers, who frankly tend to come off as clueless to what real users just trying to get a job done actually want.

grimmdude 10y ago

I feel like icons can encourage application exploration too, which could be a good thing.

jv22222 10y ago

I did a workup of the iphone with no icons and just text: http://justinvincent.com/page/2387/if-the-iphone-used-text-labels-instead-of-icons http://justinvincent.com/page/2387/if-the-iphone-used-text-l... It shows just how stark an interface can look without them.

zellyn 10y ago
This is a fantastic refutation of the idea that text is best. You have to read the whole thing to figure out where to tap. Nicely done!
- dkersten 10y ago
  I disagree. I mean, yes, the icons look much, much nicer, but the text I can understand much easier. For example, desprite owning an iPhone myself, after looking at that comparison, I just realised that I had actually never used (nor really knew what they meant) what the "do not disturb", "timer" or "calculator" icons were. I've always navigated to calculator and timer from the apps on the home screen (and have never used do not disturb). I'm not saying that Apple should change the icons, not at all. Just that I don't think this is a refutation of the idea that text is best at all. If anything, it shows that text is much more descoverable and understandable, if a good bit uglier (and less compact). I do think that icons are the right choice for the iPhone, and once you learn the icons there's no problem (as long as they don't get changed!), but its not as clear cut as you seem to be saying. I'm forever confused by non-standard various unlabelled icons all over the place. I also have no idea what most of the articles in the linked article mean (eg the washing machine/clothes icons -- I still don't know what they mean when I see them on clothes!)
  - socialentp 10y ago
    I think Apple Mail actually strikes the right balance here. There are icons, but they have text below them by default. If you want a cleaner interface once you are able to easily identify the feature by the icons, you can right-click and turn off the text. It's like training wheels for the UI. I used the text labels until I no longer needed them, and now I only use the icons.