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>> I've also become a cynic. I welcome national services to lose control of their systems and their data. Quite a moronic point of view when lives could be pot

>> I've also become a cynic. I welcome national services to lose control of their systems and their data. Quite a moronic point of view when lives could be potentially put at risk.

madez 9y ago
I agree as to that it sounds moronic. Maybe it even is. However, think about a levee about which you know that it will not hold when a storm comes, but people don't believe you and are not even willing to listen to you. Would you think it's moronic to welcome a storm as a shot across the bows so people realized what you are talking about? The constructive solution to this problem is to find a way to convey the message such that people are willing to listen. But that can be very difficult.
- graphitezepp 9y ago
  In a similar vein Karl Marx is said to have been pro free trade, as it would lead to what he believed would happen to capitalism much faster. Also the colloquial expression "kick in the teeth". Often actual change requires drastic consequences.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  I don't feel you're moronic and I absolutely get your sense of frustration, but welcoming a storm is implicitly saying that you think the suffering of some others is an acceptable price to pay for opening the eyes of the higher-ups. I'd like to suggest that the reason people in management don't listen to people in IT is because the people in IT aren't willing to make them, despite having direct and often primary access to the organizational levers of power. Have you ever considered the possibility that management deliberately selects for this kind of passivity and conflict aversion when staffing IT departments, hiring exactly the sort of people who might roll their eyes or grumble at things but will reliably do what they're told?
dasil003 9y ago
I disagree. Every day we become more and more dependent on computers, and more specifically, networked computers. The IoT is exploding with horrific security implications. Everyone is focused on the next big thing, and no one is paying attention to the house of cards we are building. So for something like this to happen now is much better than it happening later, because people need events like this to wake up and motivate action.
dredmorbius 9y ago
You do realise that very nearly every engineering standard ever established, or regulation imposed, is written in the blood and memorialises the souls of those who died because it wasn't in place. Turn on your gas stove for a moment, but don't light it. That smell you detect is a memorial to the 295 students and teachers of the New London School: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion Early in 1937, the school board canceled their natural gas contract and had plumbers install a tap into Parade Gasoline Company's residue gas line to save money. This practice—while not explicitly authorized by local oil companies—was widespread in the area. The natural gas extracted with the oil was considered a waste product and was flared off. As there was no value to the natural gas, the oil companies turned a blind eye. This "raw" or "wet" gas varied in quality from day to day, even from hour to hour.

>> I've also become a cynic. I welcome national services to lose control of their systems and their data. Quite a moronic point of view when lives could be potentially put at risk.

madez 9y ago

I agree as to that it sounds moronic. Maybe it even is. However, think about a levee about which you know that it will not hold when a storm comes, but people don't believe you and are not even willing to listen to you. Would you think it's moronic to welcome a storm as a shot across the bows so people realized what you are talking about? The constructive solution to this problem is to find a way to convey the message such that people are willing to listen. But that can be very difficult.

graphitezepp 9y ago
In a similar vein Karl Marx is said to have been pro free trade, as it would lead to what he believed would happen to capitalism much faster. Also the colloquial expression "kick in the teeth". Often actual change requires drastic consequences.
anigbrowl 9y ago
I don't feel you're moronic and I absolutely get your sense of frustration, but welcoming a storm is implicitly saying that you think the suffering of some others is an acceptable price to pay for opening the eyes of the higher-ups. I'd like to suggest that the reason people in management don't listen to people in IT is because the people in IT aren't willing to make them, despite having direct and often primary access to the organizational levers of power. Have you ever considered the possibility that management deliberately selects for this kind of passivity and conflict aversion when staffing IT departments, hiring exactly the sort of people who might roll their eyes or grumble at things but will reliably do what they're told?

dasil003 9y ago

I disagree. Every day we become more and more dependent on computers, and more specifically, networked computers. The IoT is exploding with horrific security implications. Everyone is focused on the next big thing, and no one is paying attention to the house of cards we are building. So for something like this to happen now is much better than it happening later, because people need events like this to wake up and motivate action.

dredmorbius 9y ago

You do realise that very nearly every engineering standard ever established, or regulation imposed, is written in the blood and memorialises the souls of those who died because it wasn't in place. Turn on your gas stove for a moment, but don't light it. That smell you detect is a memorial to the 295 students and teachers of the New London School: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion Early in 1937, the school board canceled their natural gas contract and had plumbers install a tap into Parade Gasoline Company's residue gas line to save money. This practice—while not explicitly authorized by local oil companies—was widespread in the area. The natural gas extracted with the oil was considered a waste product and was flared off. As there was no value to the natural gas, the oil companies turned a blind eye. This "raw" or "wet" gas varied in quality from day to day, even from hour to hour.