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> If there were a car brand with affordable cars that didn't play these games, I'd buy from them happily. No you wouldn't. You've already lost the affordable g

> If there were a car brand with affordable cars that didn't play these games, I'd buy from them happily. No you wouldn't. You've already lost the affordable game by insisting on new cars. New car dealerships get away with this crap because their customer base is already not very price-rational. It doesn't matter whether they're discounting you $1000 or $3000 when you've already foregone $10,000 or more in exchange for the abstract feeling of newness. If you don't want to play price games, just get on craigslist, look for a car at a price you like, go check it out and have your mechanic inspect it, then don't negotiate, just pay the price. Or whatever, you can even be sloppy and get screwed by a private party and still probably end up way ahead compared to the stealership's prices. New cars are a luxury product and it's very strange to see people discussing them as if they're anything else. Luxury products always have wacky economics, since their value is so untied to fundamentals.

dtnewman 9y ago
> No you wouldn't. Yes, I think I would. Or at least that a lot of others would. I understand that used cars are a better deal, but I've already decided that I want the "luxury" of a new car. But within that framework, I still want the best price, just as many others do. It's not illogical to say "I want a new car and I want to pay as little as possible for it without negotiating". In my case, I bought a used car before my current one and it turned out to be a dud. Let's say that you place a premium on having a car that doesn't break down frequently. With a leased car, I'm paying for that luxury. I understand that I can come out ahead with used cars, but I don't want to deal with the hassle of taking it to a mechanic, the possibility of things breaking when the car is out of warranty, and yes, not having the latest features. And as much as people hate negotiating for new cars, negotiating for used cars is even worse.
- galdosdi 9y ago
  You're mistakenly legitimitizing the idea that there is some tangible "luxury" available from a truly new car (as opposed to a late model one, a year or two old, in impeccable condition and perhaps some aftermarket accessories). However, that is a scam idea with no basis in the physical world, invented and maintained by those with a vested interest. Therefore, all a brand new car (as opposed to a good 1 year old car) gets you is a vague feeling of newness and false ideas in your head that the probability of failure is lower. As smart as you think you are, by buying into it you've already bought into their system. They're already selling you a bag of air, and already got you to agree that this has some value, so they have a lot of leverage on the price, since there's no objective way to value something that is useless except because people can be tricked into wanting it.

dtnewman 9y ago

> No you wouldn't. Yes, I think I would. Or at least that a lot of others would. I understand that used cars are a better deal, but I've already decided that I want the "luxury" of a new car. But within that framework, I still want the best price, just as many others do. It's not illogical to say "I want a new car and I want to pay as little as possible for it without negotiating". In my case, I bought a used car before my current one and it turned out to be a dud. Let's say that you place a premium on having a car that doesn't break down frequently. With a leased car, I'm paying for that luxury. I understand that I can come out ahead with used cars, but I don't want to deal with the hassle of taking it to a mechanic, the possibility of things breaking when the car is out of warranty, and yes, not having the latest features. And as much as people hate negotiating for new cars, negotiating for used cars is even worse.

galdosdi 9y ago
You're mistakenly legitimitizing the idea that there is some tangible "luxury" available from a truly new car (as opposed to a late model one, a year or two old, in impeccable condition and perhaps some aftermarket accessories). However, that is a scam idea with no basis in the physical world, invented and maintained by those with a vested interest. Therefore, all a brand new car (as opposed to a good 1 year old car) gets you is a vague feeling of newness and false ideas in your head that the probability of failure is lower. As smart as you think you are, by buying into it you've already bought into their system. They're already selling you a bag of air, and already got you to agree that this has some value, so they have a lot of leverage on the price, since there's no objective way to value something that is useless except because people can be tricked into wanting it.