4 ms·

> low un-liveable minimum-wage Why does a grocery bagger need to have a livable wage? Seems like a great first job for someone in high school or a nice part-ti

> low un-liveable minimum-wage Why does a grocery bagger need to have a livable wage? Seems like a great first job for someone in high school or a nice part-time job to help generate a little extra income.

vidarh 10y ago
Are you suggesting those are the only people in those types of jobs?
gech 10y ago
Go to a store and see the people actually working in reality.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bradleyankrom 10y ago
Because oftentimes it is the wage by which they are forced to live?
- humanrebar 10y ago
  So the proposal is to give employers a choice: - hire no grocery baggers - only hire grocery baggers if they're willing to pay $20 an hour or more ...it doesn't necessarily follow that someone will end up with a living wage from this kind of regulation. There is also the unintended consequence that (no longer employable) young people are less qualified for future work because they've never learned how to work hard, manage their bosses, etc.
pjmorris 10y ago
Where do you see the cut-off between jobs that can be lived off of and jobs that can't be lived off of?
- humanrebar 10y ago
  I'm not sure I need to make that cut off? If people could provide enough value to live off of, then they would. Everyone wants to be paid more. If adults with kids aren't qualified for something more involved or demanding than grocery bagging, the problem is elsewhere, not with how much it's worth to an employer to pay someone to put milk in a paper bag.
  - forgotpwtomain 10y ago
    > If people could provide enough value to live off of, then they would. Everyone wants to be paid more. Have you ever had to support yourself or others while earning minimum wage? Or did your upper-middle-class family fund your college education so you could make a comfortable living as a software engineer? I'm seriously wondering because your tone is full of self-entitled, condescending ignorance.
    - humanrebar 10y ago
      > Have you ever had to support yourself or others while earning minimum wage? Yes. The home I grew up in was lower middle class at best, though it's irrelevant to my arguments and generally none of your business. But since it's now a subject of interest, what is relevant was that earning minimum wage as a teenager helped my blue collar family since I paid for my own clothes, transportation, gas, food, school incidentals, and many other expenses. I wouldn't have found a job paying $15 an hour. I would have been unemployed (though we don't count poor teenagers as unemployed usually). And my family's budget would have been negatively impacted.
      - forgotpwtomain 10y ago
        > though it's irrelevant to my arguments and generally none of your business. I don't think it's irrelevant because certain foundations predispose one to certain lines of arguments. Particularly >> If adults with kids aren't qualified for something more involved or demanding than grocery bagging Not all adults have had an equal opportunity to obtain a skill-set that would qualify them for a better job and once you are stuck barely scraping by with a livable-wage it's very difficult to alter that situation. Culture and upbringing play a large part; children are easily impressionable, those growing up in troubled families or neighborhoods are less likely to do well in school and less likely to gain a skill-set that they would need to provide more value in the future. > what is relevant was that earning minimum wage as a teenager helped my blue collar family since I paid for my own clothes, transportation, gas, food, school incidentals, and many other expenses. I think it's great you were able to do that, but that doesn't mean that this minimum-wage would be sufficient for someone without a family to support them, or trying to acquire a skill-set later in their twenties.
zyx321 10y ago
Yeah, why pay college dropouts a livable wage? It's not Walmart's fault if they were born stupid.
- sctb 10y ago
  Please do not violate the guidelines by posting uncivilly like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
watwut 10y ago
What makes grocery bagging different from any other kind of job?
- humanrebar 10y ago
  Why did I pick it as an example? It's usually minimum wage, entry level, and often done by teenagers as their first job. It's also not generally part of the tipping economy, which complicates the discussion a bit. It's also a job that one might do at Walmart or a competitor.
brianbreslin 10y ago
Minimum wage is not something only teenagers work for. That fantasy has been disproven over and over again. The largest group of minimum wage earners are 18-40 year old women, many supporting families.
- winstonewert 10y ago
  So? When a single mother is trying to support her family on a minimum wage, yes, that's bad. But there's nothing wrong with a teenager making minimum wage in his first job.
j2bax 10y ago
If you can't afford to pay a living being a living wage, then you can't afford to pay for the service... Maybe you should automate the task.
specialist 10y ago
Because incorporation is a charter to do business in the service of society.

vidarh 10y ago

Are you suggesting those are the only people in those types of jobs?

gech 10y ago

Go to a store and see the people actually working in reality.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

bradleyankrom 10y ago

Because oftentimes it is the wage by which they are forced to live?

humanrebar 10y ago
So the proposal is to give employers a choice: - hire no grocery baggers - only hire grocery baggers if they're willing to pay $20 an hour or more ...it doesn't necessarily follow that someone will end up with a living wage from this kind of regulation. There is also the unintended consequence that (no longer employable) young people are less qualified for future work because they've never learned how to work hard, manage their bosses, etc.

pjmorris 10y ago

Where do you see the cut-off between jobs that can be lived off of and jobs that can't be lived off of?

humanrebar 10y ago
I'm not sure I need to make that cut off? If people could provide enough value to live off of, then they would. Everyone wants to be paid more. If adults with kids aren't qualified for something more involved or demanding than grocery bagging, the problem is elsewhere, not with how much it's worth to an employer to pay someone to put milk in a paper bag.
- forgotpwtomain 10y ago
  > If people could provide enough value to live off of, then they would. Everyone wants to be paid more. Have you ever had to support yourself or others while earning minimum wage? Or did your upper-middle-class family fund your college education so you could make a comfortable living as a software engineer? I'm seriously wondering because your tone is full of self-entitled, condescending ignorance.
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    > Have you ever had to support yourself or others while earning minimum wage? Yes. The home I grew up in was lower middle class at best, though it's irrelevant to my arguments and generally none of your business. But since it's now a subject of interest, what is relevant was that earning minimum wage as a teenager helped my blue collar family since I paid for my own clothes, transportation, gas, food, school incidentals, and many other expenses. I wouldn't have found a job paying $15 an hour. I would have been unemployed (though we don't count poor teenagers as unemployed usually). And my family's budget would have been negatively impacted.
    - forgotpwtomain 10y ago
      > though it's irrelevant to my arguments and generally none of your business. I don't think it's irrelevant because certain foundations predispose one to certain lines of arguments. Particularly >> If adults with kids aren't qualified for something more involved or demanding than grocery bagging Not all adults have had an equal opportunity to obtain a skill-set that would qualify them for a better job and once you are stuck barely scraping by with a livable-wage it's very difficult to alter that situation. Culture and upbringing play a large part; children are easily impressionable, those growing up in troubled families or neighborhoods are less likely to do well in school and less likely to gain a skill-set that they would need to provide more value in the future. > what is relevant was that earning minimum wage as a teenager helped my blue collar family since I paid for my own clothes, transportation, gas, food, school incidentals, and many other expenses. I think it's great you were able to do that, but that doesn't mean that this minimum-wage would be sufficient for someone without a family to support them, or trying to acquire a skill-set later in their twenties.

zyx321 10y ago

Yeah, why pay college dropouts a livable wage? It's not Walmart's fault if they were born stupid.

sctb 10y ago
Please do not violate the guidelines by posting uncivilly like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

watwut 10y ago

What makes grocery bagging different from any other kind of job?

humanrebar 10y ago
Why did I pick it as an example? It's usually minimum wage, entry level, and often done by teenagers as their first job. It's also not generally part of the tipping economy, which complicates the discussion a bit. It's also a job that one might do at Walmart or a competitor.

brianbreslin 10y ago

Minimum wage is not something only teenagers work for. That fantasy has been disproven over and over again. The largest group of minimum wage earners are 18-40 year old women, many supporting families.

winstonewert 10y ago
So? When a single mother is trying to support her family on a minimum wage, yes, that's bad. But there's nothing wrong with a teenager making minimum wage in his first job.

j2bax 10y ago

If you can't afford to pay a living being a living wage, then you can't afford to pay for the service... Maybe you should automate the task.

specialist 10y ago

Because incorporation is a charter to do business in the service of society.