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And along with cost: maintenance. The failure of a sensor could have far more dangerous consequences than a worn-out catalytic converter. You'll have to keep yo

by hughw 9y ago

And along with cost: maintenance. The failure of a sensor could have far more dangerous consequences than a worn-out catalytic converter. You'll have to keep your car's sensors in much fitter trim. That will be impossible for lots of people who today can barely keep their car passing inspection.

Fricken 9y ago
Even when the subject is Uber you get people who somehow aren't able to process the notion that autonomous vehicles will be shared, managed and maintained by large scale professional fleet management services, and rented on a per trip basis. Every major company developing fully autonomous passenger vehicles is pursuing this model.
- ghaff 9y ago
  If they are truly just taxis, then their penetration will be approximately what taxis are today plus some increment to account for lower pricing. Maybe add rental cars.
  - Fricken 9y ago
    Lol, this whole thread feels like it's out of a time warp from 2013, before the rush, when most people were still pretty naive about these things.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      So where is the math that lets everyone suddenly afford to and want to take taxis everywhere? In New York City, a taxi driver takes home maybe 50% of the money collected in fares after costs (whether depreciation on their own car, renting a taxi by the day or week, gas, etc.) That may be high but it's a nice round number. If we take this as a general rule of thumb (and NYC cabbies make more than the average), that means you could but cab fares by roughly 50% by eliminating the driver. Maybe that forces a behavioral change on the part of some urbanites. But I can pretty much guarantee you that cutting cab prices by 50% will minimally affect behaviors in most places. And that's not even counting the many places where having the most rudimentary cab services is barely a cost-effective business today.
      - Fricken 9y ago
        Many analysts have crunched the numbers, and come up with similar results, but Brad Templeton has been thinking and writing about Robotaxis longer than anyone else, so I'll link to his numbers: http://ideas.4brad.com/robotaxi-economics http://ideas.4brad.com/robotaxi-economics
        ghaff 9y ago
        Those numbers seem quite consistent with what I wrote. Costs per mile of a "normal" car today of about 50 cents/mile. (Which is approximately the IRS reimbursement rate so that seems very reasonable.) So that would be a good ballpark. Which is 1/2 to 1/3 of Uber today. Sure, you can speculate about optimized taxi designs (which aren't especially relevant to non-core urban areas with high car ownership today) but small electric vehicles could exist without self-driving too. IMO this is an academic exercise for at least a couple of decades in any case but it's an interesting thought experiment.
- hughw 9y ago
  That's the reason. We are unable. Somehow we aren't able to process this subtle notion you have revealed to us. Even now, I find myself unable to grasp this nuance.
AnimalMuppet 9y ago
The health of the sensors will become part of the safety inspection.

by hughw 9y ago

Fricken 9y ago

Even when the subject is Uber you get people who somehow aren't able to process the notion that autonomous vehicles will be shared, managed and maintained by large scale professional fleet management services, and rented on a per trip basis. Every major company developing fully autonomous passenger vehicles is pursuing this model.

ghaff 9y ago
If they are truly just taxis, then their penetration will be approximately what taxis are today plus some increment to account for lower pricing. Maybe add rental cars.
- Fricken 9y ago
  Lol, this whole thread feels like it's out of a time warp from 2013, before the rush, when most people were still pretty naive about these things.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    So where is the math that lets everyone suddenly afford to and want to take taxis everywhere? In New York City, a taxi driver takes home maybe 50% of the money collected in fares after costs (whether depreciation on their own car, renting a taxi by the day or week, gas, etc.) That may be high but it's a nice round number. If we take this as a general rule of thumb (and NYC cabbies make more than the average), that means you could but cab fares by roughly 50% by eliminating the driver. Maybe that forces a behavioral change on the part of some urbanites. But I can pretty much guarantee you that cutting cab prices by 50% will minimally affect behaviors in most places. And that's not even counting the many places where having the most rudimentary cab services is barely a cost-effective business today.
    - Fricken 9y ago
      Many analysts have crunched the numbers, and come up with similar results, but Brad Templeton has been thinking and writing about Robotaxis longer than anyone else, so I'll link to his numbers: http://ideas.4brad.com/robotaxi-economics http://ideas.4brad.com/robotaxi-economics
      - ghaff 9y ago
        Those numbers seem quite consistent with what I wrote. Costs per mile of a "normal" car today of about 50 cents/mile. (Which is approximately the IRS reimbursement rate so that seems very reasonable.) So that would be a good ballpark. Which is 1/2 to 1/3 of Uber today. Sure, you can speculate about optimized taxi designs (which aren't especially relevant to non-core urban areas with high car ownership today) but small electric vehicles could exist without self-driving too. IMO this is an academic exercise for at least a couple of decades in any case but it's an interesting thought experiment.
hughw 9y ago
That's the reason. We are unable. Somehow we aren't able to process this subtle notion you have revealed to us. Even now, I find myself unable to grasp this nuance.

AnimalMuppet 9y ago

The health of the sensors will become part of the safety inspection.