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Many people who have lived under actual communist governments see communism for what it is - evil.

by shaftoe 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
richardwhiuk 9y ago
Many people who have lived under actual capitalist governments see capitalism for what it is - evil.
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  yet they are completely free to complain, or move to greener pastures of their choice. good luck doing that in some gulags or concentration camps of 'better' regimes. gotta love heroes from behind the keyboard that never grew up actually oppressed - it must be so easy to ignore benefits you have and just radiate hate because whatever. to sum up - no, capitalism is not evil. it ain't perfect, but much better than any other real alternative out there. if you hate it so much, why not man up and move somewhere better for you? you will make place for somebody who actually wants to live in it. or change that evil capitalism. but that's hard, easier to just complain from behind the keyboard, right?
thanksgiving 9y ago
It is possible for communists to be evil but Communism can't be any more evil than anything else. There is mismanagement of public money everywhere. There are people who abuse their position of power everywhere. I can agree if someone says it is impractical but to say it is evil is just misplaced anger. Even if Communism is evil, it is still true that the people orchestrating the red scares were evil as well.
- Touche 9y ago
  Marx and Engels might not have been evil but virtually all other communist thinkers / politicians were. You should go read the writings pre-Bolshevik revolution to get an idea. A big problem with Marxist thinking is that it encouraged pseudo-science and the belief that there was only 1 possible correct interpretation of history. So pre-Bolshevik thinkers competed for who was right, spiraling towards more and more extreme thinking, with the more strong-armed Lenin eventually winning out (and killing his rivals). What happened later was pretty inevitable once you understand the appeal of Marxism and understand that it's targeted at affluent intellectuals, not at the poor.
  - alphonsegaston 9y ago
    This is such a gross exaggeration. Were the Frankfurt School, many of whom were Jews who escaped the Holocaust, exploring how Capitalism gives rise to fascism through the lens of Marxism, "evil thinkers?" Are the democratically elected communist politicians in countries like Japan evil? Bending over backwards to defend totalitarian regimes like the Soviets or CCP is obviously grotesque, but this kind of blanket pronouncement is about as nuanced as their thinking.
    - Touche 9y ago
      I wasn't aware that the Frankfurt School thought of themselves as communists. This is news to me. Can you refer me to any writings by them where they talk about this? Thank you.
      - alphonsegaston 9y ago
        Marxists.org has an archive of many of their writings: https://www.marxists.org/subject/frankfurt-school/ https://www.marxists.org/subject/frankfurt-school/ And Horkheimer is of course famous for saying, "If you don't want to talk about capitalism then you had better keep quiet about fascism."
        Touche 9y ago
        That's irrelevant to whether they self-identified as Communists. The link you gave indicates that they didn't, quite the contrary.
        alphonsegaston 9y ago
        Ah, apologies. I thought you were asking in good faith instead of trying to score some semantic point. In that case, you describe Marx as a "communist thinker", which would make the Frankfurt School(who were Marxists) communists by the terms of your categorization.
PeterisP 9y ago
IDK, in communist regimes generally it was the regime that was the evil part, not the economic system. USSR bolshevism was just as evil (or even more so) during their 'new economic policy' (free market capitalism) years. Revolutions establishing de facto dictatorships were just as evil as any other dictatorships, no matter if their economic policy in the end was communism, fascism or free market. Revolutions creating a one party communist state were just as evil as revolutions creating a one party theocratic state or one of the many cult-of-personality fascist regimes that happened also long after ww2. Revolutions or coups establishing oligarchies or committees running everything were, again, just as evil no matter what economic policy they run. The evil of one group gaining power and slaughtering another group is the same no matter if the "othering" happened because of class warfare, religious hatred or ethnic cleansing. It's just that in the 20th century communism was the most popular cause of regime changes resulting in such dictatorships and single ruling party systems, though nowhere near the only one.
watwut 9y ago
You would be surprised at the amount of support communism (or other dictatorship) has in pay communist countries. The "former communist country citizem therefore against it" formula doés not work (for various reasons).

Many people who have lived under actual communist governments see communism for what it is - evil.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

richardwhiuk 9y ago

Many people who have lived under actual capitalist governments see capitalism for what it is - evil.

saiya-jin 9y ago
yet they are completely free to complain, or move to greener pastures of their choice. good luck doing that in some gulags or concentration camps of 'better' regimes. gotta love heroes from behind the keyboard that never grew up actually oppressed - it must be so easy to ignore benefits you have and just radiate hate because whatever. to sum up - no, capitalism is not evil. it ain't perfect, but much better than any other real alternative out there. if you hate it so much, why not man up and move somewhere better for you? you will make place for somebody who actually wants to live in it. or change that evil capitalism. but that's hard, easier to just complain from behind the keyboard, right?

thanksgiving 9y ago

It is possible for communists to be evil but Communism can't be any more evil than anything else. There is mismanagement of public money everywhere. There are people who abuse their position of power everywhere. I can agree if someone says it is impractical but to say it is evil is just misplaced anger. Even if Communism is evil, it is still true that the people orchestrating the red scares were evil as well.

Touche 9y ago
Marx and Engels might not have been evil but virtually all other communist thinkers / politicians were. You should go read the writings pre-Bolshevik revolution to get an idea. A big problem with Marxist thinking is that it encouraged pseudo-science and the belief that there was only 1 possible correct interpretation of history. So pre-Bolshevik thinkers competed for who was right, spiraling towards more and more extreme thinking, with the more strong-armed Lenin eventually winning out (and killing his rivals). What happened later was pretty inevitable once you understand the appeal of Marxism and understand that it's targeted at affluent intellectuals, not at the poor.
- alphonsegaston 9y ago
  This is such a gross exaggeration. Were the Frankfurt School, many of whom were Jews who escaped the Holocaust, exploring how Capitalism gives rise to fascism through the lens of Marxism, "evil thinkers?" Are the democratically elected communist politicians in countries like Japan evil? Bending over backwards to defend totalitarian regimes like the Soviets or CCP is obviously grotesque, but this kind of blanket pronouncement is about as nuanced as their thinking.
  - Touche 9y ago
    I wasn't aware that the Frankfurt School thought of themselves as communists. This is news to me. Can you refer me to any writings by them where they talk about this? Thank you.
    - alphonsegaston 9y ago
      Marxists.org has an archive of many of their writings: https://www.marxists.org/subject/frankfurt-school/ https://www.marxists.org/subject/frankfurt-school/ And Horkheimer is of course famous for saying, "If you don't want to talk about capitalism then you had better keep quiet about fascism."
      - Touche 9y ago
        That's irrelevant to whether they self-identified as Communists. The link you gave indicates that they didn't, quite the contrary.
        alphonsegaston 9y ago
        Ah, apologies. I thought you were asking in good faith instead of trying to score some semantic point. In that case, you describe Marx as a "communist thinker", which would make the Frankfurt School(who were Marxists) communists by the terms of your categorization.

PeterisP 9y ago

IDK, in communist regimes generally it was the regime that was the evil part, not the economic system. USSR bolshevism was just as evil (or even more so) during their 'new economic policy' (free market capitalism) years. Revolutions establishing de facto dictatorships were just as evil as any other dictatorships, no matter if their economic policy in the end was communism, fascism or free market. Revolutions creating a one party communist state were just as evil as revolutions creating a one party theocratic state or one of the many cult-of-personality fascist regimes that happened also long after ww2. Revolutions or coups establishing oligarchies or committees running everything were, again, just as evil no matter what economic policy they run. The evil of one group gaining power and slaughtering another group is the same no matter if the "othering" happened because of class warfare, religious hatred or ethnic cleansing. It's just that in the 20th century communism was the most popular cause of regime changes resulting in such dictatorships and single ruling party systems, though nowhere near the only one.

watwut 9y ago

You would be surprised at the amount of support communism (or other dictatorship) has in pay communist countries. The "former communist country citizem therefore against it" formula doés not work (for various reasons).