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I agree. With a little discipline, namespacing and a good project organization you can be very productive using only jQuery. No framework to learn, no need to u

by GoToRO 9y ago

I agree. With a little discipline, namespacing and a good project organization you can be very productive using only jQuery. No framework to learn, no need to update your app to the latest incompatible version (angular), you do not need to wait 6 months until you can hire a new developer. The only thing that I would use is a CSS framework.

fvdessen 9y ago
I am sorry, but modern frameworks such as Vue or React make you an order of magnitude more productive. And instead of waiting 6 months for a dev, I would consider training new ones.
- GoToRO 9y ago
  Yes, you are more productive writing the easy stuff and then you loose time with esoteric bugs, configuration, training. Overall I would say less productive, but maybe this is only my experience.
  - fvdessen 9y ago
    Frameworks have improved immensely in the last few years. With Vue, I use the cli to generate the webpack project and then it works out of the box, bugfree (so far). And then you can work with truly reusable single file components, and you don't have to manage the dom manually, ever (unless you want to). This alone is a game changer. It's like going from C/OpenGL to Unity3D.
- rhapsodic 9y ago
  > I am sorry, but modern frameworks such as Vue or React make you an order of magnitude more productive. That's quite a bold claim. Can you substantiate it in any way?
  - jakelazaroff 9y ago
    Is it really that bold? The popularity of front-end frameworks has exploded in the past few years, and you would be hard pressed to find a team building an application without one. Clearly there's a reason people are making this choice. This article by Tom Dale (one of the creators of Ember) explains it really well: http://tomdale.net/2015/11/javascript-frameworks-and-mobile-performance/ http://tomdale.net/2015/11/javascript-frameworks-and-mobile-... Key quote: "As apps grow, you tend to need the abstractions that a framework offers. Either you or the community write the code."
    - rhapsodic 9y ago
      > Is it really that bold? The claim in question was: > I am sorry, but modern frameworks such as Vue or React make you an order of magnitude more productive. And yes, that really was that bold. This classic paper has held up pretty well for three decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet > Clearly there's a reason people are making this choice. Maybe they're just following fashion because they don't know any better. Maybe they're trying to gild their resumes. Or maybe they really do have a problem that a particular framework solves or mitigates. There are doubtless many reasons. But it's a huge leap of logic to base on that, a claim that frameworks make you an order of magnitude more productive.
tbcktu 9y ago
With a little discipline, namespacing, and good project organization you don't need a CSS framework either.

by GoToRO 9y ago

fvdessen 9y ago

I am sorry, but modern frameworks such as Vue or React make you an order of magnitude more productive. And instead of waiting 6 months for a dev, I would consider training new ones.

GoToRO 9y ago
Yes, you are more productive writing the easy stuff and then you loose time with esoteric bugs, configuration, training. Overall I would say less productive, but maybe this is only my experience.
- fvdessen 9y ago
  Frameworks have improved immensely in the last few years. With Vue, I use the cli to generate the webpack project and then it works out of the box, bugfree (so far). And then you can work with truly reusable single file components, and you don't have to manage the dom manually, ever (unless you want to). This alone is a game changer. It's like going from C/OpenGL to Unity3D.
rhapsodic 9y ago
> I am sorry, but modern frameworks such as Vue or React make you an order of magnitude more productive. That's quite a bold claim. Can you substantiate it in any way?
- jakelazaroff 9y ago
  Is it really that bold? The popularity of front-end frameworks has exploded in the past few years, and you would be hard pressed to find a team building an application without one. Clearly there's a reason people are making this choice. This article by Tom Dale (one of the creators of Ember) explains it really well: http://tomdale.net/2015/11/javascript-frameworks-and-mobile-performance/ http://tomdale.net/2015/11/javascript-frameworks-and-mobile-... Key quote: "As apps grow, you tend to need the abstractions that a framework offers. Either you or the community write the code."
  - rhapsodic 9y ago
    > Is it really that bold? The claim in question was: > I am sorry, but modern frameworks such as Vue or React make you an order of magnitude more productive. And yes, that really was that bold. This classic paper has held up pretty well for three decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet > Clearly there's a reason people are making this choice. Maybe they're just following fashion because they don't know any better. Maybe they're trying to gild their resumes. Or maybe they really do have a problem that a particular framework solves or mitigates. There are doubtless many reasons. But it's a huge leap of logic to base on that, a claim that frameworks make you an order of magnitude more productive.

tbcktu 9y ago

With a little discipline, namespacing, and good project organization you don't need a CSS framework either.