6 ms·

Country is a basket case politically, lowest calibre of politician I have ever encountered. A profound paucity of talent across the board and absolutely no end

by d_t_w 9y ago

Country is a basket case politically, lowest calibre of politician I have ever encountered. A profound paucity of talent across the board and absolutely no end in sight to the endless stupidity. You can think of the shit infrastructure, crap attitude in general, and intellectually bankrupt waste that make up the political class as the many layers of tax on any high cognitive business in Australia. Coal is the future apparently. Don't even get me started on the racists.

d_t_w 9y ago
Do you want to hear a funny joke by the Australian Prime Minister? The "cartoon that united Australians" - Malcolm Turnbull, PM, 2017 (his comment, he's not the cartoonist) http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/53a5099c7991c37bb152ddf53f2bc429?width=1024 http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/53a5099c7991c37bb152ddf53... Funny one, isn't it.
- beedogs 9y ago
  Thankfully, the unhinged racist who drew it just shuffled off this mortal coil. He had many more which were just as terrible as this.
  - flukus 9y ago
    The cartoon wasn't racist, it's your own bias that makes you think it is.
    - d_t_w 9y ago
      Your opinion is a fairly common one in Australia, or at least it is one commonly expressed.
    - dazc 9y ago
      An Aussie friend once told me about a friend of hers who killed a person while drink driving. She said "he (the victim) was only and Ab, but she (her friend) got done anyway" as if it was a perfectly normal thing to say.
    - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
      I'm not Australian, but I went back and looked at it again and I can't see any possible way to interpret it that isn't racist. Perhaps you could fill me in?
      - strken 9y ago
        I read it as a statement that the problems faced by remote aboriginal communities are structural and obey institutional inertia; that they are hard problems. We have a history of well-intentioned reformers coming in and making everything much worse: the stolen generation, the NTER, laws against alcohol consumption that cause even more destructive patterns of behaviour, etc. I've known men and women who trained as police, and went off to the NT rosy-cheeked idealists. All came back either depressed or outright racist. It's a hard problem. Abusive parents create abused children, who grow up to be abusive parents themselves; the same is true of poverty. Abuse and poverty are grinding cycles that are very hard to disrupt. How do you teach a boy who's never met his father about the importance of being there for his own sons and daughters? How do you talk about the cycle without blaming or objectivising the human beings trapped within? But then, maybe Bill Leak was just plain old racist, and I read a pattern in the noise.
        d_t_w 9y ago
        Thanks, what an intriguing level of detail to draw from the cartoon, I have to admit I never read even the slightest amount of that from it. To me the cartoon is staggeringly racist. Clearly, deliberately, outrageously racist. And I am deliberate in my use of the words "deliberate" and "outrageous" because personally I believe in Australia that the proprietor of this particular newspaper makes his money by manufacturing outrage. To me the cartoon is as racist as the day is long, it's as racist as it is blunt. There's no finesse. There's no guile. There's no dog-whistle or wink to the unspoken. It's a full frontal racist scaling of the ramparts. Which is why I find your comment so intriguing, because you clearly hold a detailed opinion, well communicated, of many different facets you have drawn from the content and how they relate back to social issues in the Northern Territory and yet none of what confronts me occurs to you. So can I ask you. If I were the proprietor of a newspaper that liked this cartoon but needed it to actually be racist. What would you change? Could you change anything to make this cartoon racist? Or is it not possible. Perhaps we just disagree on what racism is. Personally, I can't think of a single thing that I could change to increase the amount of racism it expresses. I'm interested to hear your opinion.
    - beedogs 9y ago
      oh ok
- stirlo 9y ago
  It should be noted that comment was made at the artists funeral and is not complete. The full quote is 'cartoon that united Australians in defence of freedom' referring to freedom of speech https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/17/turnbull-lauds-bill-leaks-cartoon-that-united-australians-in-defence-of-freedom https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/17/turnbull-lauds...
  - d_t_w 9y ago
    Out of interest, do you think the extra context ameliorates the Prime Minister's proud defence of base racism?
    - ars 9y ago
      As an outsider, sounds like he defended free speech, not racism. So yes, the extra content makes a huge difference.
      - d_t_w 9y ago
        Thanks. Personally I'm comfortable that both the location and further context are extraneous. His assertion that it united the nation is misguided enough (and clearly factually incorrect, though as an outsider you may not be aware of that). That the PM chose that particular cartoon to exalt speaks volumes.
aaron695 9y ago
> Don't even get me started on the racists. Skipping the Scandinavian-ish countries name a place less racist? France? Asia? US? Africa? UK? India? This discussion is about broadband not sure why you felt the need to Segway to this pointless point.
- d_t_w 9y ago
  Luckily Australia is almost exclusively powered by excuses and whataboutery, not many people know that. My comment added some context about one of the main protagonists of the story, I'm comfortable it's cromulent. If not, please, take my internet points.
dang 9y ago
Please don't post nationalistic rants here. I get that this one is probably the clean-up-our-own-house kind, but that subtlety doesn't work on the internet.
- d_t_w 9y ago
  This is the place to comment on the article about how political incompetency hobbled Australia's broadband, right? I understand if you are Australian and find the criticism uncomfortable, but it's a fair reflection of my experience. My intent wasn't to suggest X is better than Australia, rather to inform the readership of HN that the political paralysis and ineptitude in this country is in no way limited to a single broadband project.
  - dang 9y ago
    Right, and I get that your intention was positive, but "basket case...shit...crap" doesn't count as "inform", and it's only by chance that you didn't provoke aggrieved responses, a.k.a. flamewars. The thread went far off-topic as it was.
    - d_t_w 9y ago
      I'm sorry to inform you that the internet is not an anodyne safe-place. Consider your emotional reaction and continued need to engage, down this off-topic path.
      - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
        Um, dang is one of the moderators here. Trying to shut town off-topic rants that lead to flamewars is part of his job. He's engaging because he's trying to educate you on how people are expected to behave on HN. (And it's good that he tries, rather than just banning you. And it's good that he keeps calling out and shutting down garbage; HN is trying to hold on as a place where you can have an intelligent conversation rather than drowning in insanity.)
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

by d_t_w 9y ago

d_t_w 9y ago

Do you want to hear a funny joke by the Australian Prime Minister? The "cartoon that united Australians" - Malcolm Turnbull, PM, 2017 (his comment, he's not the cartoonist) http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/53a5099c7991c37bb152ddf53f2bc429?width=1024 http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/53a5099c7991c37bb152ddf53... Funny one, isn't it.

beedogs 9y ago
Thankfully, the unhinged racist who drew it just shuffled off this mortal coil. He had many more which were just as terrible as this.
- flukus 9y ago
  The cartoon wasn't racist, it's your own bias that makes you think it is.
  - d_t_w 9y ago
    Your opinion is a fairly common one in Australia, or at least it is one commonly expressed.
  - dazc 9y ago
    An Aussie friend once told me about a friend of hers who killed a person while drink driving. She said "he (the victim) was only and Ab, but she (her friend) got done anyway" as if it was a perfectly normal thing to say.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    I'm not Australian, but I went back and looked at it again and I can't see any possible way to interpret it that isn't racist. Perhaps you could fill me in?
    - strken 9y ago
      I read it as a statement that the problems faced by remote aboriginal communities are structural and obey institutional inertia; that they are hard problems. We have a history of well-intentioned reformers coming in and making everything much worse: the stolen generation, the NTER, laws against alcohol consumption that cause even more destructive patterns of behaviour, etc. I've known men and women who trained as police, and went off to the NT rosy-cheeked idealists. All came back either depressed or outright racist. It's a hard problem. Abusive parents create abused children, who grow up to be abusive parents themselves; the same is true of poverty. Abuse and poverty are grinding cycles that are very hard to disrupt. How do you teach a boy who's never met his father about the importance of being there for his own sons and daughters? How do you talk about the cycle without blaming or objectivising the human beings trapped within? But then, maybe Bill Leak was just plain old racist, and I read a pattern in the noise.
      - d_t_w 9y ago
        Thanks, what an intriguing level of detail to draw from the cartoon, I have to admit I never read even the slightest amount of that from it. To me the cartoon is staggeringly racist. Clearly, deliberately, outrageously racist. And I am deliberate in my use of the words "deliberate" and "outrageous" because personally I believe in Australia that the proprietor of this particular newspaper makes his money by manufacturing outrage. To me the cartoon is as racist as the day is long, it's as racist as it is blunt. There's no finesse. There's no guile. There's no dog-whistle or wink to the unspoken. It's a full frontal racist scaling of the ramparts. Which is why I find your comment so intriguing, because you clearly hold a detailed opinion, well communicated, of many different facets you have drawn from the content and how they relate back to social issues in the Northern Territory and yet none of what confronts me occurs to you. So can I ask you. If I were the proprietor of a newspaper that liked this cartoon but needed it to actually be racist. What would you change? Could you change anything to make this cartoon racist? Or is it not possible. Perhaps we just disagree on what racism is. Personally, I can't think of a single thing that I could change to increase the amount of racism it expresses. I'm interested to hear your opinion.
  - beedogs 9y ago
    oh ok
stirlo 9y ago
It should be noted that comment was made at the artists funeral and is not complete. The full quote is 'cartoon that united Australians in defence of freedom' referring to freedom of speech https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/17/turnbull-lauds-bill-leaks-cartoon-that-united-australians-in-defence-of-freedom https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/17/turnbull-lauds...
- d_t_w 9y ago
  Out of interest, do you think the extra context ameliorates the Prime Minister's proud defence of base racism?
  - ars 9y ago
    As an outsider, sounds like he defended free speech, not racism. So yes, the extra content makes a huge difference.
    - d_t_w 9y ago
      Thanks. Personally I'm comfortable that both the location and further context are extraneous. His assertion that it united the nation is misguided enough (and clearly factually incorrect, though as an outsider you may not be aware of that). That the PM chose that particular cartoon to exalt speaks volumes.

aaron695 9y ago

> Don't even get me started on the racists. Skipping the Scandinavian-ish countries name a place less racist? France? Asia? US? Africa? UK? India? This discussion is about broadband not sure why you felt the need to Segway to this pointless point.

d_t_w 9y ago
Luckily Australia is almost exclusively powered by excuses and whataboutery, not many people know that. My comment added some context about one of the main protagonists of the story, I'm comfortable it's cromulent. If not, please, take my internet points.

dang 9y ago

Please don't post nationalistic rants here. I get that this one is probably the clean-up-our-own-house kind, but that subtlety doesn't work on the internet.

d_t_w 9y ago
This is the place to comment on the article about how political incompetency hobbled Australia's broadband, right? I understand if you are Australian and find the criticism uncomfortable, but it's a fair reflection of my experience. My intent wasn't to suggest X is better than Australia, rather to inform the readership of HN that the political paralysis and ineptitude in this country is in no way limited to a single broadband project.
- dang 9y ago
  Right, and I get that your intention was positive, but "basket case...shit...crap" doesn't count as "inform", and it's only by chance that you didn't provoke aggrieved responses, a.k.a. flamewars. The thread went far off-topic as it was.
  - d_t_w 9y ago
    I'm sorry to inform you that the internet is not an anodyne safe-place. Consider your emotional reaction and continued need to engage, down this off-topic path.
    - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
      Um, dang is one of the moderators here. Trying to shut town off-topic rants that lead to flamewars is part of his job. He's engaging because he's trying to educate you on how people are expected to behave on HN. (And it's good that he tries, rather than just banning you. And it's good that he keeps calling out and shutting down garbage; HN is trying to hold on as a place where you can have an intelligent conversation rather than drowning in insanity.)

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]