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I know from firsthand experience how the elk and deer herds have been decimated in that region of the country, and in fact have been cut by more than 50% in the

I know from firsthand experience how the elk and deer herds have been decimated in that region of the country, and in fact have been cut by more than 50% in the region I've hunted over the past decade. This dramatically shortens the season for us and also means we haven't been able to take any females for years now. We've also been tracked and surrounded by them on a few occasions, and I challenge anyone who enjoys watching them on YouTube to feel the same way after you've heard their chorus of howls completely surrounding you in dark timber. I'm talking about deep instinctual fear . . . it's sobering. I think the article does a poor job of describing the hunting process, it's not like you just kill wolves and tell Fish & Game about it later. You have to hunt in season using certain weapons or traps and you have to apply for tags beforehand. The success rate is extremely low, I know the first year it was open in Idaho the projected rate was 20% but the actual rate was 0.3%. Turns out wolves are extremely hard to hunt. Having them off the list is a huge improvement though because the ranchers and hunters are working in cooperation instead of opposition to the authorities. There used to be a real S.S.S. attitude among the old timers (Shoot, Shovel, Shut up), now they are going to be giving good data back to the authorities who will be better able to adjust the numbers in favor of all the species that share the ecosystem. For context, the first wolf killed during the legal season in my area was stuffed and mounted in the local sporting goods store . . . 7 feet nose to tail and probably north of 140#. Not what you want to meet in the woods, and especially not when there are two dozen of them.

1_2__3 9y ago
So should we start hunting bears in Yellowstone?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bluGill 9y ago
  Maybe - what is the situation with bears. Are there too many for the ecosystem or not. This needs to be handle on a case by case basis. Man has greatly changed the ecosystems of the world. (this is ongoing). Some of it has been for the worst, but we have been correcting things too and some of our corrections have gone too far (or perhaps reached an end of their useful life?)
- twothamendment 9y ago
  I don't know about Yellowstone, but I'm in Montana and bears are hunted. If I see on one my land, cool, it will move on. When they become a problem in town a hunter with a permit will "remove" it. Are they a problem? Not really, but they do need to be managed. Some schools get put on lock down because of criminals. Ours was on lock down until they got the bear.
- jboggan 9y ago
  Depends on what the scientists say. But if they deemed it was appropriate to balance the other herds, sure, and I'd pay a pretty penny for a lotto drawing on that tag. That's a lot of stew and sausage from one animal, it would feed a lot of families throughout the year.
narrowrail 9y ago
>I'm talking about deep instinctual fear With a 30-30 or 30-06, I'm not sure what there is to be scared of (not mentioning a probable .45 side-arm)? Guns are scarier than teeth.
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  I imagine being hunted and stalked by another animal is frightening regardless of the hardware.
  - narrowrail 9y ago
    There are no wolves hunting humans, and the idea is so ridiculous it is astounding.
- js2 9y ago
  I'm just a runner, not a hunter. A couple years ago, I was out on a run when I was quickly set upon by two adolescent German Shepherds. I was on the opposite side of the street, but they left their property (they were out playing fetch with their owner). Before I knew it, they were circling me and then one took a bite of my thigh. To this day, I'm astonished by how quickly it happened. I'm virtually certain that even if I'd had a weapon, I would not have been able to use it in time. These dogs were not attacking me either. The bite was playful, from a poorly trained adolescent dog. I'm pretty sure that even with a gun, I'd be scared of a pack of wolves. A canine can move very quickly and violently.
  - narrowrail 9y ago
    The person I responded to was talking about hunting. So, it stands to reason he had a rifle. Wolves are scared of humans. They recognize the apex predator. Edit: I suppose I should mention that domesticated dogs can be trained to be all sorts of aggressive (esp. German shepherd). Domesticated dogs have none of the lessons taught to them that a wild wolf would learn from their mother. Wolves avoid humans at all costs.
- jboggan 9y ago
diebir 9y ago
Fuck hunters and fuck ranchers. The hunter and rancher lobby and good old boys everywhere in the West is why we can't have wolves despite the overwhelming support from general public. A large number (all?) ranchers in the West are what is called "welfare ranchers". The only reason they can exist is the taxpayer support. They get cheap grazing land for the amount of money not even sufficient to pay for paperwork management, the federal wild life management is killing wolves and coyotees for them. If not for the taxpayer subsidy, many of them would not exist. Wolves (just like grizzlies) are a necessary part of the ecosystem. The nature is not obligated to provide an easy elk hunt to you or anyone else. The overpopulation by elk and deer is why we have the chronic wasting disease and why the Rocky Mountain National Park has to cull elk. Traps are the worst. This is an extremely painful way for the animals to die and routinely kills wolves, dogs, cougars and everything else. The federal wildlife control agency uses cyanide bombs to kill predators, which often also kills dogs and sometime injures their owners (see the recent case of a boy who was poisoned and his dog killed). We need to bring down the anonymous on the sons of bitches that run the wolf hunting outfits, just like they came down the elephant hunting dentist. We need to bring the attention of the public to the wolf hunts, which happens right here, not somewhere in Africa and is just as brutal. Do you how they fight the wolf packs? They kill the pack, leaving one surviving wolf and collar it. Then they wait for the lone survivor to form a new pack and repeat the story. It is hard to imagine what the poor soul has to go through losing the family over and over again. Look it up, this is in Oregon, now. The damn fucking cowards of humans hunt wolves with snowmobiles and pickups. They carry high powered rifles with optics. They use traps. This is not even remotely a sport, but just plain murder. As soon as Trump fuckers are out of the office, the wolf protected status comes back.
- jboggan 9y ago
  RMNP has to cull elk because they like hanging out where they can't be hunted and overcrowd the local ecosystems where hunters cannot reach them. They are very intelligent and they know the seasons and the regions where they can be preyed upon by man. You'd think the world was covered in elk the week before rifle season starts, then they go to ground. I agree traps aren't as humane, that's why we practice our marksmanship with "high powered rifles with optics" so that our shots land true and there is minimal pain and suffering.
enraged_camel 9y ago
Over the past 17 years there have only been two documented fatalities in North America caused by wolves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans#North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans#North_A... The idea that they will hunt down, stalk and kill humans is laughable. I know first-hand the primal fear one feels when within close proximity to a large predator (I had a scary encounter with a bear myself when hiking in California), but let's not spread FUD.
- jboggan 9y ago
  There were close calls in our hunting range before they came off the list, panicked hikers running and just encouraging them to be chased. They got more and more aggressive every year. Even though less than 10% of the hunters I know are actually going after wolves, that stalking behavior has ceased since the delisting and they keep a very healthy distance.
  - Zak 9y ago
    If you're hunting, presumably armed with a rifle, why would you run from wolves?
    - maehwasu 9y ago
      He said hikers were running, not hunters.
      - Zak 9y ago
        Whoops, my mistake. For the record, running from wolves is always a bad idea. Wolves run faster than humans and have a strong instinct to chase anything that runs from them.

1_2__3 9y ago

So should we start hunting bears in Yellowstone?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bluGill 9y ago
Maybe - what is the situation with bears. Are there too many for the ecosystem or not. This needs to be handle on a case by case basis. Man has greatly changed the ecosystems of the world. (this is ongoing). Some of it has been for the worst, but we have been correcting things too and some of our corrections have gone too far (or perhaps reached an end of their useful life?)
twothamendment 9y ago
I don't know about Yellowstone, but I'm in Montana and bears are hunted. If I see on one my land, cool, it will move on. When they become a problem in town a hunter with a permit will "remove" it. Are they a problem? Not really, but they do need to be managed. Some schools get put on lock down because of criminals. Ours was on lock down until they got the bear.
jboggan 9y ago
Depends on what the scientists say. But if they deemed it was appropriate to balance the other herds, sure, and I'd pay a pretty penny for a lotto drawing on that tag. That's a lot of stew and sausage from one animal, it would feed a lot of families throughout the year.

narrowrail 9y ago

>I'm talking about deep instinctual fear With a 30-30 or 30-06, I'm not sure what there is to be scared of (not mentioning a probable .45 side-arm)? Guns are scarier than teeth.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
I imagine being hunted and stalked by another animal is frightening regardless of the hardware.
- narrowrail 9y ago
  There are no wolves hunting humans, and the idea is so ridiculous it is astounding.
js2 9y ago
I'm just a runner, not a hunter. A couple years ago, I was out on a run when I was quickly set upon by two adolescent German Shepherds. I was on the opposite side of the street, but they left their property (they were out playing fetch with their owner). Before I knew it, they were circling me and then one took a bite of my thigh. To this day, I'm astonished by how quickly it happened. I'm virtually certain that even if I'd had a weapon, I would not have been able to use it in time. These dogs were not attacking me either. The bite was playful, from a poorly trained adolescent dog. I'm pretty sure that even with a gun, I'd be scared of a pack of wolves. A canine can move very quickly and violently.
- narrowrail 9y ago
  The person I responded to was talking about hunting. So, it stands to reason he had a rifle. Wolves are scared of humans. They recognize the apex predator. Edit: I suppose I should mention that domesticated dogs can be trained to be all sorts of aggressive (esp. German shepherd). Domesticated dogs have none of the lessons taught to them that a wild wolf would learn from their mother. Wolves avoid humans at all costs.
jboggan 9y ago

diebir 9y ago

Fuck hunters and fuck ranchers. The hunter and rancher lobby and good old boys everywhere in the West is why we can't have wolves despite the overwhelming support from general public. A large number (all?) ranchers in the West are what is called "welfare ranchers". The only reason they can exist is the taxpayer support. They get cheap grazing land for the amount of money not even sufficient to pay for paperwork management, the federal wild life management is killing wolves and coyotees for them. If not for the taxpayer subsidy, many of them would not exist. Wolves (just like grizzlies) are a necessary part of the ecosystem. The nature is not obligated to provide an easy elk hunt to you or anyone else. The overpopulation by elk and deer is why we have the chronic wasting disease and why the Rocky Mountain National Park has to cull elk. Traps are the worst. This is an extremely painful way for the animals to die and routinely kills wolves, dogs, cougars and everything else. The federal wildlife control agency uses cyanide bombs to kill predators, which often also kills dogs and sometime injures their owners (see the recent case of a boy who was poisoned and his dog killed). We need to bring down the anonymous on the sons of bitches that run the wolf hunting outfits, just like they came down the elephant hunting dentist. We need to bring the attention of the public to the wolf hunts, which happens right here, not somewhere in Africa and is just as brutal. Do you how they fight the wolf packs? They kill the pack, leaving one surviving wolf and collar it. Then they wait for the lone survivor to form a new pack and repeat the story. It is hard to imagine what the poor soul has to go through losing the family over and over again. Look it up, this is in Oregon, now. The damn fucking cowards of humans hunt wolves with snowmobiles and pickups. They carry high powered rifles with optics. They use traps. This is not even remotely a sport, but just plain murder. As soon as Trump fuckers are out of the office, the wolf protected status comes back.

jboggan 9y ago
RMNP has to cull elk because they like hanging out where they can't be hunted and overcrowd the local ecosystems where hunters cannot reach them. They are very intelligent and they know the seasons and the regions where they can be preyed upon by man. You'd think the world was covered in elk the week before rifle season starts, then they go to ground. I agree traps aren't as humane, that's why we practice our marksmanship with "high powered rifles with optics" so that our shots land true and there is minimal pain and suffering.

enraged_camel 9y ago

Over the past 17 years there have only been two documented fatalities in North America caused by wolves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans#North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans#North_A... The idea that they will hunt down, stalk and kill humans is laughable. I know first-hand the primal fear one feels when within close proximity to a large predator (I had a scary encounter with a bear myself when hiking in California), but let's not spread FUD.

jboggan 9y ago
There were close calls in our hunting range before they came off the list, panicked hikers running and just encouraging them to be chased. They got more and more aggressive every year. Even though less than 10% of the hunters I know are actually going after wolves, that stalking behavior has ceased since the delisting and they keep a very healthy distance.
- Zak 9y ago
  If you're hunting, presumably armed with a rifle, why would you run from wolves?
  - maehwasu 9y ago
    He said hikers were running, not hunters.
    - Zak 9y ago
      Whoops, my mistake. For the record, running from wolves is always a bad idea. Wolves run faster than humans and have a strong instinct to chase anything that runs from them.