5 ms·

MMA is to martial art what modern warfare is to the art of war: achieving supremacy, regardless of the means. A testimony of our times.

by eeks 9y ago

brookside 9y ago
When was this earlier genteel era, exactly?
- eeks 9y ago
  Eastern martial art forms epitomize this "genteel" era. In the western world, it officially ended with the 2nd world war when civilian targets were acceptable, but the ships was sailed already by the first world war. Of course, we can always go back to pre-civilized societies to justify barbaric behavior.
  - brookside 9y ago
    In the pre-World War Western world we were on a massive genocidal race to divide up the lands of those "pre-civilized" societies.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    "Civilized" armies have always been pretty awful to the civilians in places they invaded. Rape. Murder. Pillaging. Pretty much everywhere, during every war.
    - eeks 9y ago
      I agree, but that's beside the original point. There is a moral difference between raping and pillaging a defeated foe and leveling an entire civilian city as part of a war strategy (examples: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Oradour sur Glane, etc...).
      - maxerickson 9y ago
        Burning cities is practically a human tradition.
oblio 9y ago
Humankind has always been violent. To quote Anthony Hopkins in Westworld: "What do you think happened to the Neanderthals? We ate them". I'm exaggerating, but only a little :) MMA or Krav Maga basically represent applying the scientific method to brawling. In many respects they are a testimony of our times... as they're efficient and in many respects cleaner than the fights of old: an experienced MMA fighter can take out an opponent while causing him minimal lasting damage. If he wants to :)
Will_Parker 9y ago
MMA is to ancient martial arts what those arts were in their own time: A rational scientific endeavour to optimize the human brain and body for combat and self defence. Spirituality and mysticism aren't part of this any more than they are part of trying to run 100 meters as quickly as possible.
- 1_2__3 9y ago
  You make punching other people in the face for screaming crowds sound so noble. It's not.
- eeks 9y ago
  > Spirituality and mysticism aren't part of this any more than they are part of trying to run 100 meters as quickly as possible. That statement simply shows your complete lack of knowledge about martial arts. MMA, and Krav Maga and Systema, are martial practices. But they are certainly not art forms.
  - Will_Parker 9y ago
    What is your definition of art, if it is so clear to you that you can bucket into "yes" and "no"?
tinco 9y ago
MMA is to martial art what modern warfare is to classical warfare, simply the most evolved form. There is nothing wrong with practicing ancient martial arts, it's just outdated for combat with practitioners of more evolved combat techniques. There's been Karate+Judo fighters in MMA, and various boxing and wrestling style fighters as well. The only judgement for MMA fighters is that in the ring. It's silly to say traditional martial art is in some way morally superior, they are just combat techniques. Techniques for violently oppressing an opponent. As evidenced by this Tai Chi master accepting the challenge to a fight.
tdb7893 9y ago
Most martial arts often originally followed this ideal and many will still espouse it. I'm sure Jujitsu was largely the same way originally but the main thing that seems to separate MMA from everything else is the scope and the competition focus. It incorporates striking and grappling and all of the techniques are tested time and time again in actual (simulated) fights. To me it's the training that set it apart from other martial arts, not the ideals.
douche 9y ago
MMA, for all intents and purposes, appears to be the rebirth of Pankration - one step up from gutter fighting, although it appears to be slowly losing that raw edge as time passes. It appears to be the inevitable bane of these martial arts that not long after they are divorced from the singular purpose of killing the enemy efficiently they decline into stylized play-acting and often, pseudo-philosophical woo. Besides, it has to appeal to the mothers of all those eight-year-olds, and teaching eye-gouges and groin-shots and all the other nasty tricks won't fly there... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

MMA is to martial art what modern warfare is to the art of war: achieving supremacy, regardless of the means. A testimony of our times.

by eeks 9y ago

MMA is to martial art what modern warfare is to the art of war: achieving supremacy, regardless of the means. A testimony of our times.

brookside 9y ago

When was this earlier genteel era, exactly?

eeks 9y ago
Eastern martial art forms epitomize this "genteel" era. In the western world, it officially ended with the 2nd world war when civilian targets were acceptable, but the ships was sailed already by the first world war. Of course, we can always go back to pre-civilized societies to justify barbaric behavior.
- brookside 9y ago
  In the pre-World War Western world we were on a massive genocidal race to divide up the lands of those "pre-civilized" societies.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  "Civilized" armies have always been pretty awful to the civilians in places they invaded. Rape. Murder. Pillaging. Pretty much everywhere, during every war.
  - eeks 9y ago
    I agree, but that's beside the original point. There is a moral difference between raping and pillaging a defeated foe and leveling an entire civilian city as part of a war strategy (examples: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Oradour sur Glane, etc...).
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      Burning cities is practically a human tradition.

oblio 9y ago

Humankind has always been violent. To quote Anthony Hopkins in Westworld: "What do you think happened to the Neanderthals? We ate them". I'm exaggerating, but only a little :) MMA or Krav Maga basically represent applying the scientific method to brawling. In many respects they are a testimony of our times... as they're efficient and in many respects cleaner than the fights of old: an experienced MMA fighter can take out an opponent while causing him minimal lasting damage. If he wants to :)

Will_Parker 9y ago

MMA is to ancient martial arts what those arts were in their own time: A rational scientific endeavour to optimize the human brain and body for combat and self defence. Spirituality and mysticism aren't part of this any more than they are part of trying to run 100 meters as quickly as possible.

1_2__3 9y ago
You make punching other people in the face for screaming crowds sound so noble. It's not.
eeks 9y ago
> Spirituality and mysticism aren't part of this any more than they are part of trying to run 100 meters as quickly as possible. That statement simply shows your complete lack of knowledge about martial arts. MMA, and Krav Maga and Systema, are martial practices. But they are certainly not art forms.
- Will_Parker 9y ago
  What is your definition of art, if it is so clear to you that you can bucket into "yes" and "no"?

tinco 9y ago

MMA is to martial art what modern warfare is to classical warfare, simply the most evolved form. There is nothing wrong with practicing ancient martial arts, it's just outdated for combat with practitioners of more evolved combat techniques. There's been Karate+Judo fighters in MMA, and various boxing and wrestling style fighters as well. The only judgement for MMA fighters is that in the ring. It's silly to say traditional martial art is in some way morally superior, they are just combat techniques. Techniques for violently oppressing an opponent. As evidenced by this Tai Chi master accepting the challenge to a fight.

tdb7893 9y ago

Most martial arts often originally followed this ideal and many will still espouse it. I'm sure Jujitsu was largely the same way originally but the main thing that seems to separate MMA from everything else is the scope and the competition focus. It incorporates striking and grappling and all of the techniques are tested time and time again in actual (simulated) fights. To me it's the training that set it apart from other martial arts, not the ideals.

douche 9y ago

MMA, for all intents and purposes, appears to be the rebirth of Pankration - one step up from gutter fighting, although it appears to be slowly losing that raw edge as time passes. It appears to be the inevitable bane of these martial arts that not long after they are divorced from the singular purpose of killing the enemy efficiently they decline into stylized play-acting and often, pseudo-philosophical woo. Besides, it has to appeal to the mothers of all those eight-year-olds, and teaching eye-gouges and groin-shots and all the other nasty tricks won't fly there... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration