4 ms·

I am system developer. So go,python,c# neither are my work language (which is C and some C++). But i dont do everything in those two (that would be insane). I

by 0xFFC 9y ago

I am system developer. So go,python,c# neither are my work language (which is C and some C++). But i dont do everything in those two (that would be insane). I so everything non critical in python. But dynamic typing is killing me. So i am thinking about other language Go and C# and Scala-Native are bterr than others. But i want full AOT experience. I am done with whatever VM, Interpreter , etc. I want simple executable at output. About corert last news i saw claimed it is completely in alpha stage. Is this true? For example whole reflection subsystem doesn't work yet. Is this true? (It was sometime ago i saw that news) Wow, i talked so much.

oblio 9y ago
Personally I like more the idea of C# native or Kotlin Native than Go (too simple) or Scala (too complex). Regarding CoreRT, I think it's still work in progress. However, you could just use the regular dotnet core for now, you'll just deliver a zip initially. Then as soon as CoreRT is ready (which should happen this year) you can just switch to that and deliver just an executable. It's really hard to pick something at this stage since except for Go none of the alternatives are production-ready right now: CoreRT, Kotlin Native, Scala Native. So it's more about which language/ecosystem you prefer and which one you see growing faster/more. CoreRT has Microsoft's backing, so things will definitely happen. Kotlin Native is backed by Jetbrains, so it should also advance. I'm not sure who's backing Scala Native, there must be a company paying the bills for the initial development.
insulanian 9y ago
Did you consider OCaml?
- 0xFFC 9y ago
  Yes, great language, awesome concepts. But not good tooling, and I am obsessed about tooling in user space programming. I spend enough time in C/C++ development inside simple text editor and command line. I want editor support / linting / auto completion / etc. BTW if CoreRT supports F# as first class citizen. I would jump in it in heartbeat.
  - oblio 9y ago
    It's also being worked on: https://github.com/dotnet/corert/issues/2057 https://github.com/dotnet/corert/issues/2057
erk__ 9y ago
Have you considered to use something like mypy[0] to check your types in python, they added it to python a couple of years ago[1] [0] http://www.mypy-lang.org/ http://www.mypy-lang.org/ [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/
account1984 9y ago
You can publish a .NET Core application to bundle the necessary "VM" stuff, if distributing the baggage of a framework is your concern. I know this isn't really the same as native AOT though. I'm targeting many of our applications to EL7 (eg. CentOS 7.x) distributions as standalone RPMs that install on a clean Linux box and work without installing .NET Core. I install the application to /opt/my-widget and symlink the main binary to /usr/bin.
- 0xFFC 9y ago
  Awesome, elaborate a little bit if you can.
  - oblio 9y ago
    Basically this: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploying/index#self-contained-deployments-scd https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploy... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploying/deploy-with-cli https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploy...
Const-me 9y ago
In my current project I code about 70% C++, 30% C#. If you don’t need fancy stuff, you can stick to whatever .NET version is built into your target Windows (e.g. 4.5.1 for Win 8.1, or 4.6 for Win 10), and you should have zero issues with deployment (if that’s why you don’t like VMs). While technically a VM, .NET is very good one, and the quality of its runtime and framework is outstanding. OTOH, I can’t recommend .NET AOT compilation. I used similar MS technology called .NET Native. They have the stuff for a couple of years for Windows 8 Store & UWP platforms. I found and reported multiple bugs with the technology, especially in the area of unmanaged interop. They eventually fix their bugs, but they wasted quite a bit of my time, and I wonder how many more are going to be there. http://stackoverflow.com/q/34187890/126995 http://stackoverflow.com/q/34187890/126995 https://github.com/Const-me/EsentSerialize/commit/ea2cc7be58cdea02cf43d6e344317bbcd1643552 https://github.com/Const-me/EsentSerialize/commit/ea2cc7be58... The third one (only reported via e-mail), .NET Native fails to marshal custom COM interfaces implemented in C# classes to C++ libraries, at least on ARM for Win10 IoT.

by 0xFFC 9y ago

oblio 9y ago

Personally I like more the idea of C# native or Kotlin Native than Go (too simple) or Scala (too complex). Regarding CoreRT, I think it's still work in progress. However, you could just use the regular dotnet core for now, you'll just deliver a zip initially. Then as soon as CoreRT is ready (which should happen this year) you can just switch to that and deliver just an executable. It's really hard to pick something at this stage since except for Go none of the alternatives are production-ready right now: CoreRT, Kotlin Native, Scala Native. So it's more about which language/ecosystem you prefer and which one you see growing faster/more. CoreRT has Microsoft's backing, so things will definitely happen. Kotlin Native is backed by Jetbrains, so it should also advance. I'm not sure who's backing Scala Native, there must be a company paying the bills for the initial development.

insulanian 9y ago

Did you consider OCaml?

0xFFC 9y ago
Yes, great language, awesome concepts. But not good tooling, and I am obsessed about tooling in user space programming. I spend enough time in C/C++ development inside simple text editor and command line. I want editor support / linting / auto completion / etc. BTW if CoreRT supports F# as first class citizen. I would jump in it in heartbeat.
- oblio 9y ago
  It's also being worked on: https://github.com/dotnet/corert/issues/2057 https://github.com/dotnet/corert/issues/2057

erk__ 9y ago

Have you considered to use something like mypy[0] to check your types in python, they added it to python a couple of years ago[1] [0] http://www.mypy-lang.org/ http://www.mypy-lang.org/ [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0484/

account1984 9y ago

You can publish a .NET Core application to bundle the necessary "VM" stuff, if distributing the baggage of a framework is your concern. I know this isn't really the same as native AOT though. I'm targeting many of our applications to EL7 (eg. CentOS 7.x) distributions as standalone RPMs that install on a clean Linux box and work without installing .NET Core. I install the application to /opt/my-widget and symlink the main binary to /usr/bin.

0xFFC 9y ago
Awesome, elaborate a little bit if you can.
- oblio 9y ago
  Basically this: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploying/index#self-contained-deployments-scd https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploy... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploying/deploy-with-cli https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/core/deploy...

Const-me 9y ago

In my current project I code about 70% C++, 30% C#. If you don’t need fancy stuff, you can stick to whatever .NET version is built into your target Windows (e.g. 4.5.1 for Win 8.1, or 4.6 for Win 10), and you should have zero issues with deployment (if that’s why you don’t like VMs). While technically a VM, .NET is very good one, and the quality of its runtime and framework is outstanding. OTOH, I can’t recommend .NET AOT compilation. I used similar MS technology called .NET Native. They have the stuff for a couple of years for Windows 8 Store & UWP platforms. I found and reported multiple bugs with the technology, especially in the area of unmanaged interop. They eventually fix their bugs, but they wasted quite a bit of my time, and I wonder how many more are going to be there. http://stackoverflow.com/q/34187890/126995 http://stackoverflow.com/q/34187890/126995 https://github.com/Const-me/EsentSerialize/commit/ea2cc7be58cdea02cf43d6e344317bbcd1643552 https://github.com/Const-me/EsentSerialize/commit/ea2cc7be58... The third one (only reported via e-mail), .NET Native fails to marshal custom COM interfaces implemented in C# classes to C++ libraries, at least on ARM for Win10 IoT.