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The realtors I talk to hate the Zillow estimate as it typically creates an unrealistic expectation for either the seller or buyer depending on if the algorithm

The realtors I talk to hate the Zillow estimate as it typically creates an unrealistic expectation for either the seller or buyer depending on if the algorithm over or under estimates. Apparently it's rarely correct, though I live in a unique area.

lotsofpulp 9y ago
If it's not correct, then the sale price will reflect that and Zillow's reputation will take a hit. Don't understand why the government needs to get involved in what someone says something is worth, it's their opinion and they're entitled to it. Edit: It would be funny if Zillow also started putting up alerts about problems with government finances which will likely impact future taxes, such as in Illinois.
- abfan1127 9y ago
  this is America. they are not entitled to their opinion. /s I completely agree. don't like their estimate, don't use it.
- geppeto 9y ago
  The government's not getting involved, oh you mean the fact that a judge is going to be involved? Civil courts exist to provide monetary damages if damages can be proved to exist. Yes, they can also compel arbitrary behavior as a part of governing body. This is independent of any stance on Zillow and a state licensing regime. If the plaintiff can convince that the tool is making her lose money, the judge will award her money. "but that means < cue completely uninformed legal analogy >" yes you can make a career out of litigation, many people have.
  - lovich 9y ago
    It cant just be the plaintiff proving that Zillow's tool makes her lose money, can it? If that argument was true then you could get sued and lose for reporting on facts that put the company in a bad light, like poor hygiene in a restaurant, or for competing with another company with a better product.
    - geppeto 9y ago
      you have to also show up and defend yourself. many summary judgements on flaky arguments are made just because the defendant didn't respond. the judgements are collected from you bank in any jurisdiction that will reciprocate
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    You're right, I shouldn't have phrased it that way. I meant to say I don't think the government should be involved. Although, I'm not sure why the plaintiff should be awarded anything, even if Zillow causes her to "lose money". Unless Zillow is doing something specifically to her home estimate, then it's merely offering a differing opinion on what they think the home is worth.
    - snrplfth 9y ago
      "Eyyy buddy, you wanna buy this car? Classic 1991 Honda Civic, only 100k miles on it, and most of the doors still open. I'll give you a deal, $10 000." "Yeah, I don't think it's worth that much. A hundred dollars, tops." "Did you just appraise this car? Oh, you done messed up." muffled sound of approaching police sirens EDIT: Hah, didn't see you'd used the exact same analogy elsewhere.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - thaumasiotes 9y ago
    Nonsense. For the judge to award your money to a complainant, they need to have a loss and you need to be legally liable for the loss. The fact that they have a loss is not itself a cause of action. The fact that you caused the loss is still not a cause of action.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Civil courts exist to provide monetary damages if damages can be proved to exist. Civil courts exist to provide remedy for non-criminal violation of the law; award of damages (actual, statutory, punitive, or otherwise) is one form of civil remedy, but not the only one available.
- IanDrake 9y ago
  It seems to be a civil matter so far. The problem is, you'll never get to establish a sale price if the seller thinks his house is worth 100k over market or a buyer thinks the seller is asking 100k over market because that's what they saw on Zillow. Further, when zillow gets the estimate of a house wrong it costs them nothing, but there are real costs to Zillow's bad estimates to buyers and sellers.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > It seems to be a civil matter so far. A "civil matter" is where the courts—a part of government—apply law—created by government—to non-crimes disputes, often (as in this case) between private parties. It absolutely does not indicate the absence of government involvement, even if the government isn't a party to the litigation.
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    If Zillow gets the estimate wrong, then people will stop using their estimates, costing them in reputation and perhaps dollars down the line. There are so many sources of info for house value that I don't see how Zillow could single handedly be manipulating a house's sale price. If it's not selling for what the homeowner thinks it's worth, it's probably not worth that much.
- tyingq 9y ago
  >If it's not correct, then the sale price will reflect that and Zillow's reputation will take a hit. Perhaps with that buyer and seller. I believe, though, that Zillow rewrites historical estimates when they get new data. So you can't really see how wrong they were after a sale.
  - BeetleB 9y ago
    They do have an Excel sheet that indicates their accuracy for each county. Eye opening.
    - tyingq 9y ago
      Current accuracy, or full historical accuracy? I am surprised they open that kimono voluntarily.
- mywittyname 9y ago
  It's still a price anchor. If an engineer at Zillow manipulated the Zestimate on a home they were trying to buy or sell, would they succeed in driving the price of the home in the desired direction? I think so. Clearly real estate agents have the same feeling or they wouldn't be suing.
  - rejschaap 9y ago
    Mostly because they want to do the manipulating of estimates themselves.
aaroninsf 9y ago
It's somewhere between comical and meaningless in San Francisco. The operation of the algorithm is painfully apparent and AFAI most heavily weights trailing sale price per square foot and sale price over list, as compared to presumed 'comps,' all three of which factors are frankly piss-poor indicators in this market and city. As a proxy at a glance for such comps it's at least an indicator of when (as is common) list price is far below expected sale price, and an arguably cruel fiction designed to attract interest (in my tier: from the desperate). (If you don't live in SF, sales at 30-50% (100s of K) over asking are common again, after a brief cool down at the beginning of this year.)

lotsofpulp 9y ago

If it's not correct, then the sale price will reflect that and Zillow's reputation will take a hit. Don't understand why the government needs to get involved in what someone says something is worth, it's their opinion and they're entitled to it. Edit: It would be funny if Zillow also started putting up alerts about problems with government finances which will likely impact future taxes, such as in Illinois.

abfan1127 9y ago
this is America. they are not entitled to their opinion. /s I completely agree. don't like their estimate, don't use it.
geppeto 9y ago
The government's not getting involved, oh you mean the fact that a judge is going to be involved? Civil courts exist to provide monetary damages if damages can be proved to exist. Yes, they can also compel arbitrary behavior as a part of governing body. This is independent of any stance on Zillow and a state licensing regime. If the plaintiff can convince that the tool is making her lose money, the judge will award her money. "but that means < cue completely uninformed legal analogy >" yes you can make a career out of litigation, many people have.
- lovich 9y ago
  It cant just be the plaintiff proving that Zillow's tool makes her lose money, can it? If that argument was true then you could get sued and lose for reporting on facts that put the company in a bad light, like poor hygiene in a restaurant, or for competing with another company with a better product.
  - geppeto 9y ago
    you have to also show up and defend yourself. many summary judgements on flaky arguments are made just because the defendant didn't respond. the judgements are collected from you bank in any jurisdiction that will reciprocate
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  You're right, I shouldn't have phrased it that way. I meant to say I don't think the government should be involved. Although, I'm not sure why the plaintiff should be awarded anything, even if Zillow causes her to "lose money". Unless Zillow is doing something specifically to her home estimate, then it's merely offering a differing opinion on what they think the home is worth.
  - snrplfth 9y ago
    "Eyyy buddy, you wanna buy this car? Classic 1991 Honda Civic, only 100k miles on it, and most of the doors still open. I'll give you a deal, $10 000." "Yeah, I don't think it's worth that much. A hundred dollars, tops." "Did you just appraise this car? Oh, you done messed up." muffled sound of approaching police sirens EDIT: Hah, didn't see you'd used the exact same analogy elsewhere.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  Nonsense. For the judge to award your money to a complainant, they need to have a loss and you need to be legally liable for the loss. The fact that they have a loss is not itself a cause of action. The fact that you caused the loss is still not a cause of action.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Civil courts exist to provide monetary damages if damages can be proved to exist. Civil courts exist to provide remedy for non-criminal violation of the law; award of damages (actual, statutory, punitive, or otherwise) is one form of civil remedy, but not the only one available.
IanDrake 9y ago
It seems to be a civil matter so far. The problem is, you'll never get to establish a sale price if the seller thinks his house is worth 100k over market or a buyer thinks the seller is asking 100k over market because that's what they saw on Zillow. Further, when zillow gets the estimate of a house wrong it costs them nothing, but there are real costs to Zillow's bad estimates to buyers and sellers.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > It seems to be a civil matter so far. A "civil matter" is where the courts—a part of government—apply law—created by government—to non-crimes disputes, often (as in this case) between private parties. It absolutely does not indicate the absence of government involvement, even if the government isn't a party to the litigation.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  If Zillow gets the estimate wrong, then people will stop using their estimates, costing them in reputation and perhaps dollars down the line. There are so many sources of info for house value that I don't see how Zillow could single handedly be manipulating a house's sale price. If it's not selling for what the homeowner thinks it's worth, it's probably not worth that much.
tyingq 9y ago
>If it's not correct, then the sale price will reflect that and Zillow's reputation will take a hit. Perhaps with that buyer and seller. I believe, though, that Zillow rewrites historical estimates when they get new data. So you can't really see how wrong they were after a sale.
- BeetleB 9y ago
  They do have an Excel sheet that indicates their accuracy for each county. Eye opening.
  - tyingq 9y ago
    Current accuracy, or full historical accuracy? I am surprised they open that kimono voluntarily.
mywittyname 9y ago
It's still a price anchor. If an engineer at Zillow manipulated the Zestimate on a home they were trying to buy or sell, would they succeed in driving the price of the home in the desired direction? I think so. Clearly real estate agents have the same feeling or they wouldn't be suing.
- rejschaap 9y ago
  Mostly because they want to do the manipulating of estimates themselves.

aaroninsf 9y ago

It's somewhere between comical and meaningless in San Francisco. The operation of the algorithm is painfully apparent and AFAI most heavily weights trailing sale price per square foot and sale price over list, as compared to presumed 'comps,' all three of which factors are frankly piss-poor indicators in this market and city. As a proxy at a glance for such comps it's at least an indicator of when (as is common) list price is far below expected sale price, and an arguably cruel fiction designed to attract interest (in my tier: from the desperate). (If you don't live in SF, sales at 30-50% (100s of K) over asking are common again, after a brief cool down at the beginning of this year.)