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I've worked hard at distancing myself from Google. It seems their motto "Don't be Evil" has about as many asterisks behind it as they can manage. Every product

I've worked hard at distancing myself from Google. It seems their motto "Don't be Evil" has about as many asterisks behind it as they can manage. Every product they design seems to be built from the ground up to enable data collection, and every advertiser they partner with seems to have build plausible deniability into every aspect of the "product" they claim to deliver. I can't point to anything in particular, but whenever I use any of their software it just feels...creepy. At the moment I'm still tied to Chrome for bookmark sync but that's about it.

RodericDay 9y ago
I've replaced Google Maps with my iPhone's Apple Maps, and I barely use e-mail other than for transactional matters, so I'm pretty close. What's your recommendation for e-mail replacement?
- news_to_me 9y ago
  Personally, I really like Fastmail. The web interface is pretty good, and I usually just use native clients anyway.
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  I've fallen in love with Outlook.com. I know, I know, Microsoft is just as if not more evil but frankly I've found their commitment to privacy to carry very well through the service, plus, the spam-blocking is excellent. Best I've used.
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    Please step back from your entrenched viewpoint and look objectively at this. You move away from a company because they are attempting "Don't be Evil", and failing in your opinion. Then you use a company that doesn't even try to rate on non-evilness and just cares about profit. Microsoft has clearly abused their actual monopoly. They have been sued and lost for many things up to and including lying to the justice department. They are constantly being pushed back by Europe and South Korea on on bundling various things in an attempt to stifle competition. They had the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish memo where they announced all out assault on the open source community. They are patent trolling and rent seeking against Android handset makers today, right now (if they actually wanted to defend their IP they would sue google, but they want to rent seek). They put ads in local software running on peoples machines, right in the start menu. They built spyware into operating systems. They have had problems issuing rebates and paying kickbacks to squeeze other operating system out of the market. They have coerced standardization bodies. Microsoft uses security updates to force operating systems on people and stops support to convince people to move to newer versions for more money. I could go on like this for hours, but this 5 minutes of typing was enough to illustrate my point. The worst that can be said about Google is that sometimes their things they give away for free don't work right in all the browsers, and even then they try to fix it. This is astoundingly hypocritical.
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    While I think Google is more evil than Microsoft at present, both companies fall well into the category of organizations that will sacrifice any principles necessary to profit. When companies like Google and Microsoft are on top, they become abusive to maintain control of the market. Microsoft is down and out right now, and I'm using some of their services a bit more myself, but you need to bear in mind that if the tides change, so will Microsoft eventually. Sidebar: For email, I recommend FastMail.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      I'm curious as to why you think Google is more evil than Microsoft. Last time I checked Microsoft is still trying to extort money from Android OEM's for their bag of junk patents.
      - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
        Google just also announced a patent extortion scheme, as it so happens! And note that the common defense for Google not being a problem in the US is that they it only matters if they harm consumers, not businesses. Patent licensing harms the Google OEM business, but does not harm consumers. And taxing an abusive monopoly like Google's could arguably seen as a boon for the consumer's interests.
- educar 9y ago
  I just host my own email these days. Not going to rely on any 3rd party anymore.
  - fosco 9y ago
    do you have a guide on doing this successfully? do you have email on your phone as well?
    - specialp 9y ago
      You can have email everywhere with IMAP and SMTP. Even phones. One thing that is difficult running your own mail server is assuring you do not get spam filtered for running on a cloud server netblock. I had to set up DKIM, DMARC and SPF. I used this for setup: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix To get a full stack going with proper SSL auth it is somewhat involved. The good thing is once you do it, it works reliably and you OWN your email. Complying with every anti spam measure is critical though because you will be most likely sending mail to others on large servers that will reject your mail otherwise. Even then I had a lot of problems with Yahoo to get whitelisted, and Verizon just summarily blocks Digital Ocean hosts.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      This is a famous guide most self-hosting users run: https://workaround.org/ispmail/jessie https://workaround.org/ispmail/jessie
    - educar 9y ago
      I use cloudron for self-hosting mail. Yes, it works perfectly fine on mobile.
    - ionised 9y ago
      Ars Technica had decent little guides for setting up secure web server and mail server; Secure Web Server series; https://arstechnica.com/series/web-served/ https://arstechnica.com/series/web-served/ Mail Server Series https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-to-run-your-own-e-mail-server-with-your-own-domain-part-1/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-t... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/taking-e-mail-back-part-2-arming-your-server-with-postfix-dovecot/* https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/takin... https://arstechnica.com/business/2014/03/taking-e-mail-back-part-3-fortifying-your-box-against-spammers/ https://arstechnica.com/business/2014/03/taking-e-mail-back-... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/taking-e-mail-back-part-4-the-finale-with-webmail-everything-after/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/takin...
cabalamat 9y ago
> It seems their motto "Don't be Evil" has about as many asterisks behind it as they can manage Surely they just removed two letters, and an apostrophe?
Sylos 9y ago
> At the moment I'm still tied to Chrome for bookmark sync but that's about it. You can sync bookmarks with Firefox, too. And you should be able to migrate your bookmarks just as well...
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  I can't get over Firefox's resource waste though. I know Chrome isn't great for it either but Firefox really takes the cake for devouring memory.
  - sqeaky 9y ago
    So you have options, but don't like them because Google outcompetes them even after giving them a fair chance to compete. This sounds nothing like a monopoly.
  - rpearl 9y ago
    It really does seem like you sorta froze your opinions on these matters a decade ago, because in 2017 Firefox usually uses less memory than Chrome.
arthulia 9y ago
Google officially dropped the "Don't be Evil" motto a while back and picked up Alphabet's "Do the Right Thing" motto, which seems a lot more subjective.
- itp 9y ago
  Alphabet code of conduct: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/code-of-conduct.html "Employees of Alphabet and its subsidiaries and controlled affiliates (“Alphabet”) should do the right thing – follow the law, act honorably, and treat each other with respect." "If you are employed by a subsidiary or controlled affiliate of Alphabet, please comply with your employer’s code of conduct." Google code of conduct: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html "Don't be evil."
  - FussyZeus 9y ago
    But wouldn't that technically apply to only those working at Google, not the other Alphabet companies? Not that it really matters, both are utterly without meaning. I was just using it to show how their corporate personality has changed over the years.
    - polishTar 9y ago
      That's a really silly way of doing it then. Besides, "do the right thing" is more restrictive than just "don't be evil"
      - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
        "Do the right thing" for whom? Making money is definitely doing the right thing... for Google's bottom line.
        magicalist 9y ago
        "Don't be evil" to whom? Making money is definitely not evil...for Google's bottom line. This is a silly game. Proof by corporate motto.

RodericDay 9y ago

I've replaced Google Maps with my iPhone's Apple Maps, and I barely use e-mail other than for transactional matters, so I'm pretty close. What's your recommendation for e-mail replacement?

news_to_me 9y ago
Personally, I really like Fastmail. The web interface is pretty good, and I usually just use native clients anyway.
FussyZeus 9y ago
I've fallen in love with Outlook.com. I know, I know, Microsoft is just as if not more evil but frankly I've found their commitment to privacy to carry very well through the service, plus, the spam-blocking is excellent. Best I've used.
- sqeaky 9y ago
  Please step back from your entrenched viewpoint and look objectively at this. You move away from a company because they are attempting "Don't be Evil", and failing in your opinion. Then you use a company that doesn't even try to rate on non-evilness and just cares about profit. Microsoft has clearly abused their actual monopoly. They have been sued and lost for many things up to and including lying to the justice department. They are constantly being pushed back by Europe and South Korea on on bundling various things in an attempt to stifle competition. They had the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish memo where they announced all out assault on the open source community. They are patent trolling and rent seeking against Android handset makers today, right now (if they actually wanted to defend their IP they would sue google, but they want to rent seek). They put ads in local software running on peoples machines, right in the start menu. They built spyware into operating systems. They have had problems issuing rebates and paying kickbacks to squeeze other operating system out of the market. They have coerced standardization bodies. Microsoft uses security updates to force operating systems on people and stops support to convince people to move to newer versions for more money. I could go on like this for hours, but this 5 minutes of typing was enough to illustrate my point. The worst that can be said about Google is that sometimes their things they give away for free don't work right in all the browsers, and even then they try to fix it. This is astoundingly hypocritical.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  While I think Google is more evil than Microsoft at present, both companies fall well into the category of organizations that will sacrifice any principles necessary to profit. When companies like Google and Microsoft are on top, they become abusive to maintain control of the market. Microsoft is down and out right now, and I'm using some of their services a bit more myself, but you need to bear in mind that if the tides change, so will Microsoft eventually. Sidebar: For email, I recommend FastMail.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    I'm curious as to why you think Google is more evil than Microsoft. Last time I checked Microsoft is still trying to extort money from Android OEM's for their bag of junk patents.
    - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
      Google just also announced a patent extortion scheme, as it so happens! And note that the common defense for Google not being a problem in the US is that they it only matters if they harm consumers, not businesses. Patent licensing harms the Google OEM business, but does not harm consumers. And taxing an abusive monopoly like Google's could arguably seen as a boon for the consumer's interests.
educar 9y ago
I just host my own email these days. Not going to rely on any 3rd party anymore.
- fosco 9y ago
  do you have a guide on doing this successfully? do you have email on your phone as well?
  - specialp 9y ago
    You can have email everywhere with IMAP and SMTP. Even phones. One thing that is difficult running your own mail server is assuring you do not get spam filtered for running on a cloud server netblock. I had to set up DKIM, DMARC and SPF. I used this for setup: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Postfix To get a full stack going with proper SSL auth it is somewhat involved. The good thing is once you do it, it works reliably and you OWN your email. Complying with every anti spam measure is critical though because you will be most likely sending mail to others on large servers that will reject your mail otherwise. Even then I had a lot of problems with Yahoo to get whitelisted, and Verizon just summarily blocks Digital Ocean hosts.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    This is a famous guide most self-hosting users run: https://workaround.org/ispmail/jessie https://workaround.org/ispmail/jessie
  - educar 9y ago
    I use cloudron for self-hosting mail. Yes, it works perfectly fine on mobile.
  - ionised 9y ago
    Ars Technica had decent little guides for setting up secure web server and mail server; Secure Web Server series; https://arstechnica.com/series/web-served/ https://arstechnica.com/series/web-served/ Mail Server Series https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-to-run-your-own-e-mail-server-with-your-own-domain-part-1/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-t... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/taking-e-mail-back-part-2-arming-your-server-with-postfix-dovecot/* https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/takin... https://arstechnica.com/business/2014/03/taking-e-mail-back-part-3-fortifying-your-box-against-spammers/ https://arstechnica.com/business/2014/03/taking-e-mail-back-... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/taking-e-mail-back-part-4-the-finale-with-webmail-everything-after/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/takin...

cabalamat 9y ago

> It seems their motto "Don't be Evil" has about as many asterisks behind it as they can manage Surely they just removed two letters, and an apostrophe?

Sylos 9y ago

> At the moment I'm still tied to Chrome for bookmark sync but that's about it. You can sync bookmarks with Firefox, too. And you should be able to migrate your bookmarks just as well...

FussyZeus 9y ago
I can't get over Firefox's resource waste though. I know Chrome isn't great for it either but Firefox really takes the cake for devouring memory.
- sqeaky 9y ago
  So you have options, but don't like them because Google outcompetes them even after giving them a fair chance to compete. This sounds nothing like a monopoly.
- rpearl 9y ago
  It really does seem like you sorta froze your opinions on these matters a decade ago, because in 2017 Firefox usually uses less memory than Chrome.

arthulia 9y ago

Google officially dropped the "Don't be Evil" motto a while back and picked up Alphabet's "Do the Right Thing" motto, which seems a lot more subjective.

itp 9y ago
Alphabet code of conduct: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/code-of-conduct.html "Employees of Alphabet and its subsidiaries and controlled affiliates (“Alphabet”) should do the right thing – follow the law, act honorably, and treat each other with respect." "If you are employed by a subsidiary or controlled affiliate of Alphabet, please comply with your employer’s code of conduct." Google code of conduct: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html "Don't be evil."
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  But wouldn't that technically apply to only those working at Google, not the other Alphabet companies? Not that it really matters, both are utterly without meaning. I was just using it to show how their corporate personality has changed over the years.
  - polishTar 9y ago
    That's a really silly way of doing it then. Besides, "do the right thing" is more restrictive than just "don't be evil"
    - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
      "Do the right thing" for whom? Making money is definitely doing the right thing... for Google's bottom line.
      - magicalist 9y ago
        "Don't be evil" to whom? Making money is definitely not evil...for Google's bottom line. This is a silly game. Proof by corporate motto.