5 ms·

There are 1000's of underemployed CS Grads earning a pittance compared to their American counterparts. You get access to a large talent pool that makes less tha

There are 1000's of underemployed CS Grads earning a pittance compared to their American counterparts. You get access to a large talent pool that makes less than what you would pay an H1B person. ATM there is about a 37% difference in CAD-USD. So that is just a bonus. It is also Canada's biggest city and business capital. The only real cons is the price of real estate and high taxes but Google has all kinds of money so that shouldn't be an obstacle. There is also the an issue of poor transportation infra but since this will be developed downtown that shouldn't be an issue either. I am sure the Provincial/Federal Gov will throw in quite a few enticements since there is an election coming up and they are desperate for some kind of meaningful employment gains. It's a nice city to visit but you have to be wealthy to live there. It's Canada's version of NYC (a much, much, much smaller version).

52-6F-62 9y ago
I had to try and explain this to my girlfriend and her visiting sister last night. They're from Victoria and Vancouver and want us to move there. I can barely afford to live in Toronto on my salary, never mind Vancouver and the cost of moving across the country. To my knowledge -- in spite of the higher cost of living -- Vancouver-based software professionals don't make any more than they do here. That and most people here still equate software = computers = IT department = "Can you fix my laptop?"/"Why doesn't the projector work?"
- pm90 9y ago
  Help me understand this but if Software Engineers can't afford to live in the city, then ... who can? Serious question.
  - verelo 9y ago
    It's not that they cannot, it is that they do not want to. Seriously, any software dev saying they "cannot live" on their salary is simply out of touch with the rest of the world. Not to say they should take a below market salary, but comparing a hyper-crazy salary of SF to Toronto is unreasonable.
    - afuchs 9y ago
      For reference, the average salary for a software engineer, in Toronto, is close to $71,000 CAD/year. Taking into account the current CAD/USD exchange rate, brings it to approximately $52,000 USD/year. Each country has different costs, taxes and otherwise, for both employees and employers. The effects of those costs have not been included with those figures.
      - randomdata 9y ago
        For reference on the cost side, the median home in San Francisco is $1.16M[1] (USD). The mean home in Toronto is $921K[2] (CAD; about $674K USD). Median figures are, unfortunately, not publicly provided in Canada, but given the nature of home valuations (especially in Toronto where you can find multi-million dollar mansions), a comparable amount is presumably quite a bit lower than that. [1] https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-ca/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-ca/home-values/ [2] http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/real-estate-toronto-treb-foreign-sales-homes-1.4096697 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/real-estate-toronto-tr...
        maxerickson 9y ago
        San Francisco Metro is listed there, median of $843,200: https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-metro-ca_r395057/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-metro-ca_r395057/home-v... Choosing the comparison probably can't be done objectively, but the core of Toronto is about 4 times larger (area) than the city of San Francisco.
      - verelo 9y ago
        Most my friends in SF pay between $2.5-4k USD (3.4k-5.46k CAD) per month for their apartments [tell me if i'm wrong?]. I personally rent out two 1BR upper-scale apartments in downtown Toronto [one loft space for $1.9k CAD ($1.39k USD) and the other a 1BR+Den for $2.275k CAD ($1.66k USD)]. When it comes to lifestyle, money generally goes way further in Toronto than it does in SF; you're getting paid less for a reason. Oh also...enjoy your free healthcare [PS i'm Australian, so don't go thinking I'm a crazy maple syrup drinking Canadian who just loves this place because i was born here]
  - wmil 9y ago
    It's basically a matter of who got there first. NIMBYism blocks new construction. But rent control keeps things cheap for long term residents. And if you bought a house 20 years ago you're in a good spot.
- dghughes 9y ago
  Come to the Maritimes we're cheap!
  - 52-6F-62 9y ago
    I've always meant to visit! I had family out there in Halifax and Newfoundland, but all have moved back this way to Ontario.

52-6F-62 9y ago

I had to try and explain this to my girlfriend and her visiting sister last night. They're from Victoria and Vancouver and want us to move there. I can barely afford to live in Toronto on my salary, never mind Vancouver and the cost of moving across the country. To my knowledge -- in spite of the higher cost of living -- Vancouver-based software professionals don't make any more than they do here. That and most people here still equate software = computers = IT department = "Can you fix my laptop?"/"Why doesn't the projector work?"

pm90 9y ago
Help me understand this but if Software Engineers can't afford to live in the city, then ... who can? Serious question.
- verelo 9y ago
  It's not that they cannot, it is that they do not want to. Seriously, any software dev saying they "cannot live" on their salary is simply out of touch with the rest of the world. Not to say they should take a below market salary, but comparing a hyper-crazy salary of SF to Toronto is unreasonable.
  - afuchs 9y ago
    For reference, the average salary for a software engineer, in Toronto, is close to $71,000 CAD/year. Taking into account the current CAD/USD exchange rate, brings it to approximately $52,000 USD/year. Each country has different costs, taxes and otherwise, for both employees and employers. The effects of those costs have not been included with those figures.
    - randomdata 9y ago
      For reference on the cost side, the median home in San Francisco is $1.16M[1] (USD). The mean home in Toronto is $921K[2] (CAD; about $674K USD). Median figures are, unfortunately, not publicly provided in Canada, but given the nature of home valuations (especially in Toronto where you can find multi-million dollar mansions), a comparable amount is presumably quite a bit lower than that. [1] https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-ca/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-ca/home-values/ [2] http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/real-estate-toronto-treb-foreign-sales-homes-1.4096697 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/real-estate-toronto-tr...
      - maxerickson 9y ago
        San Francisco Metro is listed there, median of $843,200: https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-metro-ca_r395057/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/san-francisco-metro-ca_r395057/home-v... Choosing the comparison probably can't be done objectively, but the core of Toronto is about 4 times larger (area) than the city of San Francisco.
    - verelo 9y ago
      Most my friends in SF pay between $2.5-4k USD (3.4k-5.46k CAD) per month for their apartments [tell me if i'm wrong?]. I personally rent out two 1BR upper-scale apartments in downtown Toronto [one loft space for $1.9k CAD ($1.39k USD) and the other a 1BR+Den for $2.275k CAD ($1.66k USD)]. When it comes to lifestyle, money generally goes way further in Toronto than it does in SF; you're getting paid less for a reason. Oh also...enjoy your free healthcare [PS i'm Australian, so don't go thinking I'm a crazy maple syrup drinking Canadian who just loves this place because i was born here]
- wmil 9y ago
  It's basically a matter of who got there first. NIMBYism blocks new construction. But rent control keeps things cheap for long term residents. And if you bought a house 20 years ago you're in a good spot.
dghughes 9y ago
Come to the Maritimes we're cheap!
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  I've always meant to visit! I had family out there in Halifax and Newfoundland, but all have moved back this way to Ontario.