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The unpopular rise of self-checkouts
- jccc 10y ago> Retailers tell us that self-checkouts are all about providing more choice, convenience and speed Oh yes, of course. It's certainly not just about the cost of an employee at a cash register, which is why retailers give you a little discount when you self-checkout. They do, right? Sincerely: Does anyone believe there is any reason at all for pushing these other than squeezing labor cost, to the retailer's exclusive benefit?
- throwaway18917 10y agoCapitalism seeks to squeeze as much profit out of as little labor as possible. This should not be a surprise to anyone.
- fivestar 10y agoCapitalism can be more than just cost cutting, that isn't the only good in the equation, right? I avoid the self checkouts as much as possible because they're annoying and because I figure I might need a job as a checkout clerk sometime after I retire. It's self-interest, which is also a feature of capitalism.
- tetromino_ 10y agoI prefer having the choice to self-checkout. Given a free self-checkout and an empty lane with a cashier, I almost always go for the self-checkout: there is no need to interact with someone who is forced to smile and greet me by corporate policy, and I can arrange the groceries in my bags in the way that I like. Plus - it always feels better to do things with one's own hands. Since the rise of the self-checkout, going to a grocery store that only has human checkout clerks is starting to feel as uncomfortable as driving to a gas station in New Jersey and being forced to rely on a human attendant.
- cuddlybacon 10y agoI prefer them as well. It feels sorta weird going thru a regular checkout now and just standing there not doing anything the whole time. It's boring.
- vec 10y agoI think these exist entirely to squeeze labor costs, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. First, allowing grocery stores to operate with smaller staffs means we get more grocery stores. The small, cramped grocery store that recently opened within walking distance of my apartment probably wouldn't be able to operate if it had to provide not just pay, but parking and work space for another dozen full-time employees. That's a food desert in a dense urban core that doesn't exist anymore and a smaller, but still substantial, group of available jobs that otherwise wouldn't be there. Second, if I were to approach you and tell you I had two plans for a machine. Both are about evenly efficient, but one requires two people to stand at the machine doing boring, repetitive, mindless drudge work for hours on end. I, for one, definitely prefer the one that doesn't require human suffering to operate. Automated checkouts eliminate jobs, but specifically they eliminate shitty jobs that we should probably feel bad about asking anyone to do in the first place.
- HeyLaughingBoy 10y agoI agree with you in that I would hate a job as a supermarket cashier. However, I know people who really like it. What you and I think of as boring drudge work, they see as an opportunity to be social and chat with people all day long. People vary.
- jccc 10y agoHow much of that cost reduction goes into building new stores? How many new stores in any case are going to food deserts rather than places more profitable for the retailer? I would guess nowhere near enough to support the notion that this cost reduction leads to new stores, or that new stores would appear in food deserts. I don't want self-checkouts to disappear. I just don't want to be lied to about their purpose, and in particular they ought to make it worth my while to use them by offering at least some tiny discount. The fact that they don't tells us all we need to know.
- vec 10y ago> How much of that cost reduction goes into building new stores? Probably almost none of it, at least not directly. > How many new stores in any case are going to food deserts rather than places more profitable for the retailer? Probably a lot of them. Places where it's profitable to run a grocery store already have grocery stores. Food deserts exist in the first place because they're not profitable places to put grocery services for one reason or another. Lowering the fixed cost of running a grocery store means that some places that previously could only support N grocers can now support N+1, so that's where the opportunity is. This is no less true when N=0.
- frankc 10y agoThey're great for shy teens buying condoms or husbands buying tampons for their wives. Other than that, it's worse service for the same price.
- plopz 10y agoI always use the self checkout at my grocery store because its just faster than waiting in line. They recently added a way for people to just use an app to scan barcodes while shopping and then just scan your phone at the self checkout but I haven't tried it.
- crowbahr 10y agoMy local Safeway has no self checkout line. They don't hire more cashiers to offset this fact, they just make me stand in line longer. It's miserable. I'd love for them to have all 6 lanes open but no more than 2 ever are. Even at peak shopping times. Self checkout would be an awesome boon.
- narrowrail 10y agoWhile Safeway/ Randolph's/ Ralph's was trying (and failing) to compete with WholeFoods, they lost their way and got bought out by what is now Albertson's. Meanwhile, Kroger was kicking ass and competing on price/quality/ variety. Try not shopping at Safeway, even WalMart is better.
- maxxxxx 10y agoIf the self checkout could recognize vegetables I would be OK with it. But in general I don't see an advantage other than the company saving salaries for cashiers. It would make more sense if everything had an RFID and you could just load your shopping cart and the checkout would scan everything at once without having to put things on a scanner. This would be really useful. You could put your items straight into a shopping bag while shopping.
- adrianmonk 10y agoMy local grocery chain has scales in the produce area (and bulk foods area) that weigh and print a sticker with a barcode. If you use those, you can take fruits and vegetables through the self-checkout. The checker at the regular checkout can also scan them.
- narrowrail 10y agoIf you can't type in the code for a given piece of produce or at least use the 'type by name' I'm not sure I can help you. It sounds like we fundamentally disagree about what the experience should be like. I've probably already memorized the codes for ~40 veggies.
- maxxxxx 10y agoTo me it's easier letting the cashier figure out the codes. Obviously, I could do it myself but at that point the self checkout has no advantage for me. It only saves money for the company.
- tabeth 10y agoAre people really that against interacting with someone, even if it is forced, for a few minutes? Money saving aside, it's hardly conclusive to whether or not self-checkout is superior. Such reasoning such as reluctance to make conversation says more about the person making the claim than standard checkout as a whole.
- Finnucane 10y ago> Are people really that against interacting with someone This is HN, what do you think the answer to that is? That said, I hate self-checkout machines. Usually there's someone in line ahead of you with a 'problem' of some sort, and that's even assuming the machine itself is functioning properly. Our local supermarket actually removed theirs because they sucked so bad.
- ianai 10y agoI don't think anybody really wanted them outside of the bean counters to start. People that prefer them now probably did some mental judjitsu around the horrible interface.
- narrowrail 10y agoIt's simply more efficient. I can go to the store early in the morning where one guy can manage 6 to 12 registers. Why do I need to pay more? It's almost like asking, 'why do I need to think about this?' like there is no cost. As people become more accustomed to self-checkout and learn how their neighborhood stores work, it will only get faster.
- microtherion 10y agoI use self checkouts regularly in both the US and Switzerland. The contrast in UI design is staggering. The US self checkout machines (e.g. at Safeway) are enormous, employ voices constantly hectoring me about bags, items placed in the wrong location etc, and do everything to disrupt my rhythm: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8382/8539442967_7917df5cde_b.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8382/8539442967_7917df5cde_b.j... Swiss self checkout machines are small, silent except for beeps, and fast: https://subito.migros.ch/dam/jcr:afca29de-d490-4621-8844-868515a4df47/2160x1215-Self-Checkout-DE.jpg https://subito.migros.ch/dam/jcr:afca29de-d490-4621-8844-868... The latest option is that you can grab a scanner before shopping, scan items as you place them in your cart, and just walk up to a station to pay.
- AnimalMuppet 10y agoThat implies a level of honesty and trust that doesn't exist in the US. In Switzerland, a store can trust customers to scan everything they place in their carts. In the US, they can't. The result is a worse society, because in the US, stores have to take measures to not be ripped off. Those measures get in everyone's way, including the people who would not steal from the store.
- lawl 10y agoThere is usually one to two persons supervising a row of self checkout machines and they claim to randomly sample people, though I've never seen them doing that. Though I think these two things act as a deterent to stealing. Personally, I love self checkout in switzerland. 20 checkout stations vs. 5 is faster, tell me what you want.
- microtherion 10y ago> In Switzerland, a store can trust customers to scan everything they place in their carts. You flatter us, but I'm not convinced the Swiss are particularly honest. And I'm not convinced that anything the US register does is particularly helpful to catch cheating.
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- jobigoud 10y agoI'm still not sure why drive-through grocery stores aren't more common. Pick your items and pay from the website, grab your stuff at your convenience in 5 mins tops. We have them everywhere in France.
- djmobley 10y agoSurprised to see so much hatred for self-checkouts. I find it a pretty frictionless experience most of the time. It's usually quicker than using a cashier, and if I'm getting my goods cheaper through reduced payroll costs, who am I to complain?
- instaheat 10y agoAgreed. It's usually the older generation I see having trouble with them.
- tutufan 10y agoOuch. The ones I've used (US) are a UI catastrophe. Is blaming the user really a good solution here?
- TheOtherHobbes 10y agoI see everyone having trouble with the bad ones, because the bad ones are fundamentally broken. One big local store wasted a month getting the weight checking to work reliably. Much frustration was caused. The good ones are relatively friction free. Although my ideal would still be to avoid the checkout altogether and have some kind of smart-scan zero friction pay-as-you-leave system that only required a thumbprint or some other simple auth on exit.
- nthcolumn 10y agoI have never used one. Even when there is a queue and a person monitoring offers to scan for me I still queue. I'm never in that much of a hurry and I enjoy being as nice as possible to the assistant. I completely avoid stores that have self-checkout only. The time saved is often negligible or sometimes it is even much faster depending on whether the person I am casually racing has tried to check out some disallowed item eg. booze. or the machine has a fit which seems to happen a lot. I also get to people watch when I queue. I don't care when it is slower since I have been waited on - which is also nice. Why on earth people would want to do it themselves is beyond me even though I am very much a type A, am quite impatient and really dislike queues in general.
- kleiba 10y agoAh, how nice: a like-minded person! I'm just like you in that respect, 100%. I think another way to save costs (if that is what the stores are after) is to make the cashiers they do employ more efficient. For instance, while living in Melbourne, Australia, I sometimes went to a local Aldi store and the cashiers there weren't exactly slow, but not the fastest either. In comparison, while living in Germany, if you go to a Aldi there, they check your items out faster than you can chuck them into your cart! (Yeah, that's right, they don't pack stuff up in bags for you over there.) It's really amazing how fast they can be... and they have to because it's sometimes unbelievable how much stuff people in front of me can fit into a single cart. Because of that, however, you still get waiting lines -- it's the sheer mass of items people put on the conveyer belt. But the speed at which Aldi cashiers operate could certainly be a lesson to other stores as well if they want to maximize throughput per cashier.
- mattkevan 10y agoIt's changed now, but Aldi didn't use to use barcodes - the cashier had to memorise all the product codes. This meant they could go really fast.
- narrowrail 10y agoI have been using them for 10 years at kroger, and they work perfectly for me. I go to the grocery every other day at ~630am. I am OCD about my veggies being fresh (I also hate wasting food), and the store is on my morning jog anyway. I find that self-checkouts in poorer neighborhoods are more strict about discrepancies, so they may be a factor.
- kurtisc 10y agoI doubt you have OCD.
- chaosbutters314 10y agoPersonally I love self checkout more than a cashier. My things are bagged faster and correct things are bagged together. I dont have to make stupid small talk. And I can do it quicker since I know what I have and to expect. And old people that'd hold up the line using checks (it's 2017, checks should be banned from grocery stores for several reasons) are too scared to use them so I won't get stuck behind someone like that.
- imhelpingu 10y agoI find that those who use the self-checkout are lacking in compassion for others.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- ionised 9y agoWhat logic did you employ to reach that conclusion?
- imhelpingu 9y agoI read the other comments and reasoned that it would be fun to mock them.
- makecheck 10y agoFor me the only possible benefit was to save time, and on that self-checkout machines have failed miserably. Generally there is at least one problem but often two problems that these machines refuse to clear for me without waiting for help from an employee, and that almost obliterates any time savings all by itself. A lot, if not all, of the problems are self-inflicted poor design choices! There is NO REASON TO CARE ABOUT BAGGING; I’m sure this is some ill-conceived notion of anti-theft or whatever but when you aggravate 200 paying customers for every banana theft that you prevented, you’ve still lost. A human cashier can scan dozens of items and toss them aside in seconds!! You cannot come even close to that rate of speed when Every Single Item has to be scanned (and often re-scanned), then moved all the way over somewhere else (and then removed and added again before the computer is happy). And if you have the audacity to buy a vegetable, whose codes cashiers mostly know by heart, you will again be much slower yourself. Not to mention that the entire idea of bagging breaks down with the recent craze to bring your own bags or simply choose not to use a bag, because the computer freaks the hell out when you just want to scan your two items and pay and get out without leaving the required sacrifices on the Altar of the Bagging Lord. And there’s always at least one employee doing almost nothing except resetting computers. You know what that person could do? Accept cards in advance to start running them through the system while you’re screwing with your groceries, then press a button so that when you’re ready to pay you basically just have to tap a button and sign. Yet of course they don’t do that, they’d rather create the slowest and most unhelpful self-payment system in history, while people are waiting, which of course you can’t even reach until you satisfy the Bagging Lord in the previous step.
- wapz 10y agoI've used self checkout about 10 times. The first time took forever because I didn't know they were weighing my goods. Maybe the 4th or 5th time was slow because I bought produce and it took a long time to find the goods. After that when I had produce I just waited in lines for a clerk and when I went to the self-checkout it was very quick (just because the no lines, not because I'm quick at checking out). If there's no line or a short line for a clerk I just wait in line.
- u801e 10y agoThe best self-checkout system I've encountered are the ones they have at Sams Club (and presumably at similar warehouse clubs like Costco and BJs). There you swipe or insert your membership card. Once it has processed that, you can take the hand-held scanner and scan all the items in your cart (when putting things in the cart, I'll make sure the UPC codes are exposed). Once you're done scanning, you place the scanner back into its holder, choose your payment option, and make your payment. The only other thing you need to do is have someone check your receipt before you exit the store. It would be nice if those types of machines were in more stores as opposed to the ones that require you to take items out of the cart and either scan or weigh/enter code and then bag them.
- norea-armozel 9y agoI'm not sure if I hate self-checkout or not. But I do think they're abused too often by stores who don't have adequate staff. I know it's all about a cost saving measure but I have to wonder how much are they saving when people are avoiding them?