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I was running on some unmapped forest roads this weekend. When I used OsmAnd (which is my goto map app) I realized the roads where missing. I took a look at Goo

I was running on some unmapped forest roads this weekend. When I used OsmAnd (which is my goto map app) I realized the roads where missing. I took a look at Google Maps via my mobile browser and realized the roads were there. What is the easiest way to contribute and map out these roads on OpenStreetMap? Before I've edited OpenStreetMap by hand by using a satellite imagery overlay. Could I use a mapper app like this to automate the process, or will I be manually editing GPX uploads in the end anyways? EDIT: Had to try it now. Simple and polished. I don't see a way to map out new roads, which is understandable (I don't think it's in the scope of this super simple app). I had some trouble understanding why the inner city of my town had no "quests". It turns out you have to go to the application menu and manually "Scan for Quests here". Some places might seem to have few quests. However, zooming in a lot revealed plenty of quests for most any urban area. Kudos for making it available via F-droid!

mmel 9y ago
I've found the editing interface on the website to be quite good, you can upload GPS traces if you don't want to map them out by hand.
andretti1977 9y ago
Imo this app is a really good idea but the one of an automated difference check between google maps and osm road paths, at least for specific areas and using this app, would be really great and usefull to commit people mantaining osm even more!
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  When the UK government released cut down versions of their OS mapping, then several diff tools that allowed you to see where roads differed between the two systems appeared shortly after. I'd guess it's only copyright issues stopping this happening with Google. http://wiki.openstreetmap.orgwiki//OS_Locator#Comparison_tools http://wiki.openstreetmap.orgwiki//OS_Locator#Comparison_too...
  - andretti1977 9y ago
    Here is the correct link: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator#Comparison_tools http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator#Comparison_too... Didn't know it wasn't allowed to retrieve information from google maps and compare it to other maps
    - Piskvorrr 9y ago
      You could, I guess, compare maps for your own use (that's their purpose, after all); but what you must not do is transfer knowledge from Google's map into OSM (or vice versa). Would "I looked at GMap/OSM comparison and then reused what I saw in OSM" be wrong in the context of law? Would that be considered copying from Google? IANAL, but it seems to me that Google's position would be stronger than yours - they do have a "no derivatives without written permission" clause in the ToS, and an automated check looks as a completely different intent than normal map use.
      - dublinben 9y ago
        When contributing to OSM, it's best to not use any other maps while you work. Consider it a form of clean-room mapping, if you will. Editors like iD and JOSM already provide powerful access to approved imagery sources and GPS traces. There's no need to 'steal' information from commercial maps like Google.
        Piskvorrr 9y ago
        That's what I'm saying. You are probably trying to reply to parent.
        andretti1977 9y ago
        I wasn't suggesting to automatically copy infos from gmap to osm but to provide something like a notification that the two maps differ in a place/road. So, i understand that i can't create an automated list that lists what are the differences between gmaps and osm.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  No. Sorry, but it's not allowed to use Google's maps for anything OSM-related, manually or automatically. Google has its own ToS and it explicitly forbids reuse in other maps; it would be unwise to start pirating its map.
Mathnerd314 9y ago
> What is the easiest way to contribute and map out these roads on OpenStreetMap? Dunno about easiest, but the most effective is probably to just buy the detailed satellite/aerial imagery, (http://microsites.digitalglobe.com/30cm/ http://microsites.digitalglobe.com/30cm/) run some machine learning algorithms to identify roads, and upload that. https://github.com/trailbehind/DeepOSM https://github.com/trailbehind/DeepOSM https://developmentseed.org/blog/2017/01/30/machine-learning-learnings/ https://developmentseed.org/blog/2017/01/30/machine-learning...
- distances 9y ago
  You can't trace manually except from approved sources -- e.g. Google Maps is forbidden. I think this would fall in the same category.
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    Actually, as of yesterday, there is an approved source from DG. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DigitalGlobe http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DigitalGlobe The actual issue for tracing paths is that they're hard to distinguish, even from hi-res aerial imagery; a bit of ground knowledge of the area helps a lot, so that you don't map nonexistent paths which are actually fences or such.
    - distances 9y ago
      Great! Yahoo's maps are generally good for tracing, but the quality varies from place to place. Hopefully this improves the situation.
- dagw 9y ago
  run some machine learning algorithms to identify roads If it was that easy we'd already be doing that. 30cm imagery is still very low resolution for tasks like spotting dirt tracks under foliage, plus even the current state of the art in image recognition gives far too many false positives and negatives to be really useful without having someone manually double checking everything.
krzyk 9y ago
For adding streets it would be best to use iD (web editor from osm.org) or JOSM desktop app. If the satellite imagery is not available (iD one or in JOSM - those are approved satellite sources, that we can use - you can't use googles). In iD you just click on 3D hamburger on the right and select the source. Other option is to make a gps trace you can use any application and upload GPX it later on on the osm.org webpage or you can use OSMTracker for Android and make a trace and upload it directly from the phone.
- seren 9y ago
  The issue with satellite imagery is that usually forest road/path are missing because they are covered with foliage. So I concur in this case, the easiest way is to create a gps trace you can upload and then edit with iD on openstreetmap.org
- andygates 9y ago
  OSMTracker has handy points and text notes, which makes it my choice for detail mapping a blank area.
inevitable2 9y ago
I think for OSM there is a legal problem 'copying' from Google Maps, but BING maps is ok and you can also select a number of other background maps in JOSM or the online editor.
Piskvorrr 9y ago
I'm using Locus Pro ( http://www.locusmap.eu/ http://www.locusmap.eu/ ) for hiking, and Vespucci ( http://vespucci.io/ http://vespucci.io/ ) for map editing. Tried various Android editors; in the end, they're all clumsy compared to the powerful but computer-oriented mouse+keyboard interface of JOSM.
- 77pt77 9y ago
  I second vespuci. I usually use MapsWithMe a lot so I add POIs all the time. For paths I just use Vespuci on mobile.
lucb1e 9y ago
OsmAnd can record tracks, which you can upload to openstreetmap.org (in GPX format, which OsmAnd uses as well). Then using the iD editor (the built-in, online one) you can overlay that track.
rlarroque42 9y ago
Have you already try OSM contributor? (https://github.com/jawg/osm-contributor https://github.com/jawg/osm-contributor) I work for Jawg, the startup behind it and we are very close to OSM France. Feel free to try it and ask questions about Jawg if you are interested in maps, tile-server or something else. (https://www.jawg.io/ https://www.jawg.io/)
Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
Great to have you on board! Please do add surface tags when you're mapping forest roads - it makes all the difference for cyclists and other users.
m-p-3 9y ago
> However, zooming in a lot revealed plenty of quests for most any urban area. Yeah, I think they could improve the UI by putting a single marker with a digit to indicate there's multiple quests to complete bundled together instead of displaying nothing at all.

mmel 9y ago

I've found the editing interface on the website to be quite good, you can upload GPS traces if you don't want to map them out by hand.

andretti1977 9y ago

Imo this app is a really good idea but the one of an automated difference check between google maps and osm road paths, at least for specific areas and using this app, would be really great and usefull to commit people mantaining osm even more!

ZeroGravitas 9y ago
When the UK government released cut down versions of their OS mapping, then several diff tools that allowed you to see where roads differed between the two systems appeared shortly after. I'd guess it's only copyright issues stopping this happening with Google. http://wiki.openstreetmap.orgwiki//OS_Locator#Comparison_tools http://wiki.openstreetmap.orgwiki//OS_Locator#Comparison_too...
- andretti1977 9y ago
  Here is the correct link: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator#Comparison_tools http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OS_Locator#Comparison_too... Didn't know it wasn't allowed to retrieve information from google maps and compare it to other maps
  - Piskvorrr 9y ago
    You could, I guess, compare maps for your own use (that's their purpose, after all); but what you must not do is transfer knowledge from Google's map into OSM (or vice versa). Would "I looked at GMap/OSM comparison and then reused what I saw in OSM" be wrong in the context of law? Would that be considered copying from Google? IANAL, but it seems to me that Google's position would be stronger than yours - they do have a "no derivatives without written permission" clause in the ToS, and an automated check looks as a completely different intent than normal map use.
    - dublinben 9y ago
      When contributing to OSM, it's best to not use any other maps while you work. Consider it a form of clean-room mapping, if you will. Editors like iD and JOSM already provide powerful access to approved imagery sources and GPS traces. There's no need to 'steal' information from commercial maps like Google.
      - Piskvorrr 9y ago
        That's what I'm saying. You are probably trying to reply to parent.
        andretti1977 9y ago
        I wasn't suggesting to automatically copy infos from gmap to osm but to provide something like a notification that the two maps differ in a place/road. So, i understand that i can't create an automated list that lists what are the differences between gmaps and osm.
Piskvorrr 9y ago
No. Sorry, but it's not allowed to use Google's maps for anything OSM-related, manually or automatically. Google has its own ToS and it explicitly forbids reuse in other maps; it would be unwise to start pirating its map.

Mathnerd314 9y ago

> What is the easiest way to contribute and map out these roads on OpenStreetMap? Dunno about easiest, but the most effective is probably to just buy the detailed satellite/aerial imagery, (http://microsites.digitalglobe.com/30cm/ http://microsites.digitalglobe.com/30cm/) run some machine learning algorithms to identify roads, and upload that. https://github.com/trailbehind/DeepOSM https://github.com/trailbehind/DeepOSM https://developmentseed.org/blog/2017/01/30/machine-learning-learnings/ https://developmentseed.org/blog/2017/01/30/machine-learning...

distances 9y ago
You can't trace manually except from approved sources -- e.g. Google Maps is forbidden. I think this would fall in the same category.
- Piskvorrr 9y ago
  Actually, as of yesterday, there is an approved source from DG. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DigitalGlobe http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DigitalGlobe The actual issue for tracing paths is that they're hard to distinguish, even from hi-res aerial imagery; a bit of ground knowledge of the area helps a lot, so that you don't map nonexistent paths which are actually fences or such.
  - distances 9y ago
    Great! Yahoo's maps are generally good for tracing, but the quality varies from place to place. Hopefully this improves the situation.
dagw 9y ago
run some machine learning algorithms to identify roads If it was that easy we'd already be doing that. 30cm imagery is still very low resolution for tasks like spotting dirt tracks under foliage, plus even the current state of the art in image recognition gives far too many false positives and negatives to be really useful without having someone manually double checking everything.

krzyk 9y ago

For adding streets it would be best to use iD (web editor from osm.org) or JOSM desktop app. If the satellite imagery is not available (iD one or in JOSM - those are approved satellite sources, that we can use - you can't use googles). In iD you just click on 3D hamburger on the right and select the source. Other option is to make a gps trace you can use any application and upload GPX it later on on the osm.org webpage or you can use OSMTracker for Android and make a trace and upload it directly from the phone.

seren 9y ago
The issue with satellite imagery is that usually forest road/path are missing because they are covered with foliage. So I concur in this case, the easiest way is to create a gps trace you can upload and then edit with iD on openstreetmap.org
andygates 9y ago
OSMTracker has handy points and text notes, which makes it my choice for detail mapping a blank area.

inevitable2 9y ago

I think for OSM there is a legal problem 'copying' from Google Maps, but BING maps is ok and you can also select a number of other background maps in JOSM or the online editor.

Piskvorrr 9y ago

I'm using Locus Pro ( http://www.locusmap.eu/ http://www.locusmap.eu/ ) for hiking, and Vespucci ( http://vespucci.io/ http://vespucci.io/ ) for map editing. Tried various Android editors; in the end, they're all clumsy compared to the powerful but computer-oriented mouse+keyboard interface of JOSM.

77pt77 9y ago
I second vespuci. I usually use MapsWithMe a lot so I add POIs all the time. For paths I just use Vespuci on mobile.

lucb1e 9y ago

OsmAnd can record tracks, which you can upload to openstreetmap.org (in GPX format, which OsmAnd uses as well). Then using the iD editor (the built-in, online one) you can overlay that track.

rlarroque42 9y ago

Have you already try OSM contributor? (https://github.com/jawg/osm-contributor https://github.com/jawg/osm-contributor) I work for Jawg, the startup behind it and we are very close to OSM France. Feel free to try it and ask questions about Jawg if you are interested in maps, tile-server or something else. (https://www.jawg.io/ https://www.jawg.io/)

Doctor_Fegg 9y ago

Great to have you on board! Please do add surface tags when you're mapping forest roads - it makes all the difference for cyclists and other users.

m-p-3 9y ago

> However, zooming in a lot revealed plenty of quests for most any urban area. Yeah, I think they could improve the UI by putting a single marker with a digit to indicate there's multiple quests to complete bundled together instead of displaying nothing at all.