> right now it looks like this entire JSR is going to get killed in 30 days. I don't think so. I suspect Eclipse/IBM/RedHat will still vote against it, but th

> right now it looks like this entire JSR is going to get killed in 30 days. I don't think so. I suspect Eclipse/IBM/RedHat will still vote against it, but the others will accept that voting "yes" is better than the alternatives (as you have described) and let it through. There are a small number of members who think that Jigsaw if fundamentally bad. For them, it's solving the problem the wrong way, ignoring their beloved existing module systems, and is a waste of effort that ought to be killed. They will alway vote no, and will look for relevant technical reasons to justify that. And there's always something wrong with a spec if you want to find it. I don't specifically mean "this is political" so much as "they are predisposed to be against Jigsaw, and will always find flaws in it because they simply don't believe in it". Most of the other members who voted no, seem to think that Jigsaw can be salvaged, but don't want to simply wave it through when there's still so much angst, and there's hope that, with time, some of that angst can be reduced and the spec will be improved along the way. Once they get to the critical point where it's vote yes, or kill it entirely, that decision changes. At that point, voting no creates more angst and more problems, and won't improve the spec. I expect that they'll vote "yes" then, and accept that they got the best outcome that they could possibly achieve. Perhaps there will be one or two who will still vote no because they don't think enough progress was made and they will take a principled position over a pragmatic one (which is not necessarily a virtue in a standard committee), but I think it will get through, simply because the alternative is so much worse.