5 ms·

The story behind Dean Kamen's combustive meeting with Steve Jobs

39 points by alexwg 19y ago

caudicus 19y ago
That was a great article - highlighting everything that was wrong with Segway. I'm totally ordering the book, kind of hidden away at the bottom - http://harvardbusinessonline.hbsp.harvard.edu/b01/en/common/item_detail.jhtml?id=6730&referral=4046&_requestid=67477 http://harvardbusinessonline.hbsp.harvard.edu/b01/en/common/...
- mynameishere 19y ago
  everything that was wrong I don't think that's true. The real problems were: 1) It looked like a medical device--something for cripples. 2) It pretended to be a replacement for cars, but was in fact a replacement for walking and bicycling--both of which are superior and cheaper to scooting around. That miscalculation was why they thought it was "revolutionary".
  - thaumaturgy 19y ago
    Basically right. The technology of the thing is revolutionary, and it's based off the same technology that Kamen used in his wheelchair design. His wheelchair actually is revolutionary -- this is not. They completely screwed up the application of the thing. It doesn't solve any problems for me that are worth the price tag. If the only thing I'm transporting is me, then: - I'd rather walk, if I have the time, - or, ride a bike, if I'm in more of a hurry, - or jump in the car. So, I think human transportation is out. What I think might have worked is if the thing were designed to be a cargo transporter. I wouldn't mind being able to ride down to the grocery store on my bike, towing a stable self-powered cart on a simple leash behind me, to carry 50 pounds of groceries (or tools, or computer hardware, or whatever) on the way back. That would be kinda cool. But not $4500 cool.
andreyf 19y ago
I understand what they're talking about, but I don't get it - what makes it look so horribly geeky and dorky? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Segway_Polizei_4.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Segway_Polizei_4.jpg Can someone elucidate?
- blored 19y ago
  That's what I said to myself about HP, Dell, Lenovo until I bought a MBP (Macbook Pro). It's tough to imagine 'what it could be' unless you actually see it.
  - scorxn 19y ago
    Regardless of how the thing is skinned, the person using it is still a foot too tall, wearing a helmet and gliding around like the nun from Blues Brothers. The operation of these things looks infinitely more unusual than the device itself.
    - andreyf 19y ago
      Good points. To clarify what I meant - I get that it looks geeky, but I can't put my finger on what one would do about it. Is this something fixable?
  - staunch 19y ago
    > It's tough to imagine 'what it could be' unless you actually see it. The obvious exception being people who create things like the iPod or MBP :-)
  - dhimes 19y ago
    That's why when you get someone like Steve Jobs to give you advice, whether you like it or not you listen to it without being defensive. It's very tough to do (from customers and potentials too); it's easy to say to your self, "well, they just don't get it." But that's foolish.
- thaumaturgy 19y ago
  Well, the riders in the picture don't carry the same sort of power as, say, a horsed rider. To me, the lot of them look like they're reliant on some overblown geriatric walkers.
bstadil 19y ago
I read the book about a year ago and con recommend it. It is an interesting insight into how a macho engineering organization works and operate. The Jobs incident is somewhat misleading. The organization and Kamen himself wanted as little interface with the financial backers as they could get away with.
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]
delackner 19y ago
I have only read this excerpt, not the whole book, but the author appears to fail to understand that when you are talking about the design of a product that you only have one chance to get right, civility and head nodding is the enemy. You HAVE to be able to tell the founder that everything is wrong and the release date should be pushed, because if everything is wrong and you release anyway, you are done. The points Steve (and Bezos) made in the excerpt were spot on and ignoring them is part of why the Segway is so expensive (they built their own plant) and ugly.

39 points by alexwg 19y ago

That was a great article - highlighting everything that was wrong with Segway. I'm totally ordering the book, kind of hidden away at the bottom - http://harvardbusinessonline.hbsp.harvard.edu/b01/en/common/item_detail.jhtml?id=6730&referral=4046&_requestid=67477 http://harvardbusinessonline.hbsp.harvard.edu/b01/en/common/...

mynameishere 19y ago
everything that was wrong I don't think that's true. The real problems were: 1) It looked like a medical device--something for cripples. 2) It pretended to be a replacement for cars, but was in fact a replacement for walking and bicycling--both of which are superior and cheaper to scooting around. That miscalculation was why they thought it was "revolutionary".
- thaumaturgy 19y ago
  Basically right. The technology of the thing is revolutionary, and it's based off the same technology that Kamen used in his wheelchair design. His wheelchair actually is revolutionary -- this is not. They completely screwed up the application of the thing. It doesn't solve any problems for me that are worth the price tag. If the only thing I'm transporting is me, then: - I'd rather walk, if I have the time, - or, ride a bike, if I'm in more of a hurry, - or jump in the car. So, I think human transportation is out. What I think might have worked is if the thing were designed to be a cargo transporter. I wouldn't mind being able to ride down to the grocery store on my bike, towing a stable self-powered cart on a simple leash behind me, to carry 50 pounds of groceries (or tools, or computer hardware, or whatever) on the way back. That would be kinda cool. But not $4500 cool.

andreyf 19y ago

I understand what they're talking about, but I don't get it - what makes it look so horribly geeky and dorky? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Segway_Polizei_4.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Segway_Polizei_4.jpg Can someone elucidate?

blored 19y ago
That's what I said to myself about HP, Dell, Lenovo until I bought a MBP (Macbook Pro). It's tough to imagine 'what it could be' unless you actually see it.
- scorxn 19y ago
  Regardless of how the thing is skinned, the person using it is still a foot too tall, wearing a helmet and gliding around like the nun from Blues Brothers. The operation of these things looks infinitely more unusual than the device itself.
  - andreyf 19y ago
    Good points. To clarify what I meant - I get that it looks geeky, but I can't put my finger on what one would do about it. Is this something fixable?
- staunch 19y ago
  > It's tough to imagine 'what it could be' unless you actually see it. The obvious exception being people who create things like the iPod or MBP :-)
- dhimes 19y ago
  That's why when you get someone like Steve Jobs to give you advice, whether you like it or not you listen to it without being defensive. It's very tough to do (from customers and potentials too); it's easy to say to your self, "well, they just don't get it." But that's foolish.
thaumaturgy 19y ago
Well, the riders in the picture don't carry the same sort of power as, say, a horsed rider. To me, the lot of them look like they're reliant on some overblown geriatric walkers.

bstadil 19y ago

I read the book about a year ago and con recommend it. It is an interesting insight into how a macho engineering organization works and operate. The Jobs incident is somewhat misleading. The organization and Kamen himself wanted as little interface with the financial backers as they could get away with.

deleted 19y ago

[deleted]

delackner 19y ago

I have only read this excerpt, not the whole book, but the author appears to fail to understand that when you are talking about the design of a product that you only have one chance to get right, civility and head nodding is the enemy. You HAVE to be able to tell the founder that everything is wrong and the release date should be pushed, because if everything is wrong and you release anyway, you are done. The points Steve (and Bezos) made in the excerpt were spot on and ignoring them is part of why the Segway is so expensive (they built their own plant) and ugly.