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> The one that has jumped out at me first is called “Drop In” — which lets you make a call to someone without them even answering the phone first. I wish that

> The one that has jumped out at me first is called “Drop In” — which lets you make a call to someone without them even answering the phone first. I wish that the product person who pushed this as an "innovative" idea lives a short, brutish, and painful life where he/she dies alone. EDIT: That's too mean spirited. If you want to peer in on your elderly parents, webcams are a better idea because you'll put them in a position that captures a wide angle or buy a 360 degree camera as opposed to this which only seems to pick up video in the direction it's facing. What person would ever want this "feature"? We have webcams for people who don't mind exhibiting themselves. People overwhelmingly prefer to text others rather than talk over the phone or facetime when given the chance. Even when you visit someone in person, you don't drop in, unannounced like a peeping tom. You knock on the door to announce your appearance, exactly analogous to ringing the telephone before listening in and watching. I don't like it because the world's largest retailer has the marketing and advertising muscle to normalize this behavior by preying upon our fears, our irrational behavior, and our cognitive biases. Look at the social stigma one faces if you don't have a facebook account and you're under 35. Not just that, but you will get harassed by border and customs agents if they ask for your social media account and you don't have one, setting off red flags. In the near future, I can see this feature becoming a requirement for remote workers with insecure managers. EDIT: This will definitely become a feature on sites like Upwork so that buyers can make sure developers are billing them the correct hours, even though the prices are dirt cheap already.

rkho 9y ago
> I wish that the product person who pushed this as an "innovative" idea lives a short, brutish, and painful life where he/she dies alone. Is this necessary?
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  The people responsible for this knew exactly what they are doing. They are putting a vice grip on society's notion of what privacy is, crushing it into an ever smaller idea. It's not for the benefit of people, it's for their own narrow self-interest and profit. If this were bi-directional, that along with a loss of privacy came blanket transparency into how they're using the data they record, shared their data sets and open sourced their algorithms, I may not feel comfortable with it, but I wouldn't feel this existential dread that my greatest value comes from being a data point.
  - ianai 9y ago
    Yes, I can't shake the terror of everything I say or do being recorded and analyzed.
    - FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
      We're all politicians and celebrities now! (Except without the fame, fortune, or power)
      - ianai 9y ago
        aka micromanaged subjects
FreakyT 9y ago
> What person would ever want this "feature"? Look up research on "media spaces" if you're interested in the practical applications of this kind of feature. Just one example paper, but there are many more: https://www.billbuxton.com/DGPmediaspace.pdf https://www.billbuxton.com/DGPmediaspace.pdf Digitally creating a "portal" like this can be considered roughly analogous to connected spaces in real life. So, for example, two break rooms across different campuses of the same company, or a couple in a long-distance relationship that would ordinarily live together if not for whatever was keeping them in LDR mode stand to benefit from this sort of continuous video communication.
- Animats 9y ago
  So, for example, two break rooms across different campuses of the same company. I once suggested that to a company which had two locations that weren't getting along. Put up a teleconferencing link in their break room and leave it up. Unfortunately, this was before bandwidth was cheap enough this was a no-brainer.
- carapace 9y ago
  I love this. I'd like to have offices in a ring around the globe, maybe one in every other time-zone, each with an open floor plan and two opposite walls set up as full video walls with cameras and two-way connections so that it supports the illusion of looking into the neighboring offices through windows. There would be sound if you're standing close enough, and several scanner/printers (FAX machines lol!) connected so that you could feed a hard-copy to someone on the "other side" of the "window". It would be so cool to look "across" the distributed meta-office and SEE the day/night cycle all at once though the real windows in the offices.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  Eh, that seems like a much cooler idea implemented with untethered VR/AR lenses rather than screens everywhere. I don't like being on camera so it personally gives me the creeps.
ghurtado 9y ago
> What person would ever want this "feature"? The disabled come to mind, for starters. The elderly, assisted living, I can think of a few use cases. Do you remember the Nextel phones? (push to talk) They were annoying as all hell in a corporate setting, but had some very valid use cases in a lot of industries, to the point of being the #1 feature of a Nextel.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  There are definitely use cases for them. I was talking to a nurse the other day who was trying to track someone down on campus and she lamented "I wish we could just go back to our old Nextels".
- derefr 9y ago
  Given that both sides of the link are fixed, rather than mobile, devices, Nextel phones aren't quite the right comparison here. Essentially this is a video intercom.
cpcb 9y ago
I just placed a pre-order for 2 of the Echo Shows mostly for this Drop In feature. My wife and I are about to be first-time parents and for us, this is a pretty exciting product for parents compared to the other devices out there in this space. For the "drop in" feature specifically, my plan is to leave one Show in the nursery and one for my parents. They like to call us a lot, and with this device, I should be able to whitelist their device and let them "drop in" on the nursery and whatever we're doing at the time. I think a lot of people have a problem with the privacy aspect, but for us, I don't see why we would have a problem with my parents seeing the nursery at any given time, esp with the 10sec window to decline. And then once the baby is older, we'd move the Show to the kitchen for music, looking up recipes, etc. I think there's going to be a lot of parents looking hard at this device. The intro video Amazon made is mostly for this use case as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQqxCeHhmeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQqxCeHhmeU
- ionwake 9y ago
  am I the only guy in this thread worried about hackers and what they would do with such a trove of data? I simply would be more comfortable considering this product if I had a good report detailing how secure the system is first.
  - colemannugent 9y ago
    You're not alone. I am very surprised that people on HN of all places are so accepting of this when they are the first to tear others apart for their lack of security. A detailed technical guide to the security features of this device would almost be enough for me to buy one if their methodology was good and their security sound.
    - ionwake 9y ago
      I don't understand how an advert for a product like this does not have atleast 30 seconds dedicated to showcasing its security. Is it simply that no big data breach has ever occurred? So no one is concerned? Am I being too concerned? Is it just a matter of time before security and privacy is the priority ? Or will it never be a priority - even if a breach occurs?
thinkling 9y ago
I've actually long wanted something like this and proposed it to friends but never built it. When my friends and I got married and started having kids, contact fell off a lot -- we just didn't call as much, you get busy and you assume the others are busy putting kids to bed, etc. etc. What I wanted was a way to say "we're available to chat right now" for a handful of people I know and trust. My idea was to create a webcam into our kitchen with a limited view, turn it on when we were interested in chatting with friends, and when on it would be displayed on a dedicated tablet in our friends' kitchen, showing them that we were around and available to chat. It seems Alexa Drop-in is getting pretty close to this idea. (I think chat/messaging systems are still missing this explicit "I'm available for a synchronous chat right now" flag. Being "online" in Skype is just not quite the same thing.)
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  > I think chat/messaging systems are still missing this explicit "I'm available for a synchronous chat right now" flag. Seems identical to the long-established distinction between "online" and "away" status.
  - thinkling 9y ago
    I think there's a difference between "I'm available if you need me" (but I'm actually busy doing something right now) and "I'm relaxing and actively interested in chatting". I think that difference does not map well to status modes I've seen in Skype and the like.
- panda88888 9y ago
  IIRC in the good old days, ICQ had separate status updates for Available and Available to Chat.
rhino369 9y ago
I'd be all for it as long as it doesn't start sending my audio and video until I give an OK. I'd love to be able to talk to my family around the country instantly. I just don't wanna get caught watching porn.
mikeash 9y ago
I really don't understand this anger. I can't imagine using it either, but it's optional and off by default. If people like it, why shouldn't they have it? If they don't, they won't use it. I don't think the spying concerns are reasonable. If somebody wants to spy on somebody, there are already plenty of ways to do it. Why require that developers buy an expensive Amazon widget when you could require that they buy a $40 webcam, or better yet just say "if you don't answer the phone whenever I call you during working hours, you'd better be dead or in jail, or else you're fired."
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  > If people like it, why shouldn't they have it? It may become the norm that even though it's still optional, society moves in a direction where people have it on by default, and you are met with confused/dissapointed faces when you explain it is uncomfortable. Or it simply becomes a cultural norm in the professional world
  - mikeash 9y ago
    I don't see why it would change anything in that respect. Like I said, you can already achieve this without Amazon's fancy new box by saying, "Answer your phone when I call or you're fired."
derefr 9y ago
> EDIT: This will definitely become a feature on sites like Upwork so that buyers can make sure developers are billing them the correct hours, even though the prices are dirt cheap already. Upwork already does this; clients can watch your screen or your webcam whenever they want, if you sign up for a job that requires such. The Hansonian-em dystopia of barely-positive-utility working-to-live doesn't need Amazon's help to make its way into existence. It's already here; just unevenly distributed.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
  Really, wtf? If my boss, who is a 10x coder, looks over my shoulder it's one thing because he's more or less always right with his criticism. I couldn't imagine anyone else micromanaging the dev process though
guiambros 9y ago
> What person would ever want this "feature"? I've been waiting for years for a feature like this. Seriously. My wife let our son play with her phone, so when I call her on my way home, she never picks it up. It got to a point that sometimes I have to log in into her account and activate "Lost my iPhone", so it rings at full volume. More recently I bought an Yi camera that has an intercom functionality by default, but it's clunky, app is not very friendly, I need to scream for people to hear me, etc. Having a decent intercom functionality (and bonus points for having with video too) would be a dream come true in our household. Just wondering on the interoperability with other regular Android and iOS devices...
- wapz 9y ago
  I feel like there are multiple problems in your situation that need to be fixed. If you cannot contact your wife in an emergency there is a problem (setting off the alarm might not be viable in an emergency). Why not give your son either his own phone, a tablet, or an old phone of yours? Or why would your wife allow the volume to be off when your son is using her phone? If your wife is not at the location of the device when you "drop-in" this still won't fix your problem.

rkho 9y ago

> I wish that the product person who pushed this as an "innovative" idea lives a short, brutish, and painful life where he/she dies alone. Is this necessary?

FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
The people responsible for this knew exactly what they are doing. They are putting a vice grip on society's notion of what privacy is, crushing it into an ever smaller idea. It's not for the benefit of people, it's for their own narrow self-interest and profit. If this were bi-directional, that along with a loss of privacy came blanket transparency into how they're using the data they record, shared their data sets and open sourced their algorithms, I may not feel comfortable with it, but I wouldn't feel this existential dread that my greatest value comes from being a data point.
- ianai 9y ago
  Yes, I can't shake the terror of everything I say or do being recorded and analyzed.
  - FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
    We're all politicians and celebrities now! (Except without the fame, fortune, or power)
    - ianai 9y ago
      aka micromanaged subjects

FreakyT 9y ago

> What person would ever want this "feature"? Look up research on "media spaces" if you're interested in the practical applications of this kind of feature. Just one example paper, but there are many more: https://www.billbuxton.com/DGPmediaspace.pdf https://www.billbuxton.com/DGPmediaspace.pdf Digitally creating a "portal" like this can be considered roughly analogous to connected spaces in real life. So, for example, two break rooms across different campuses of the same company, or a couple in a long-distance relationship that would ordinarily live together if not for whatever was keeping them in LDR mode stand to benefit from this sort of continuous video communication.

Animats 9y ago
So, for example, two break rooms across different campuses of the same company. I once suggested that to a company which had two locations that weren't getting along. Put up a teleconferencing link in their break room and leave it up. Unfortunately, this was before bandwidth was cheap enough this was a no-brainer.
carapace 9y ago
I love this. I'd like to have offices in a ring around the globe, maybe one in every other time-zone, each with an open floor plan and two opposite walls set up as full video walls with cameras and two-way connections so that it supports the illusion of looking into the neighboring offices through windows. There would be sound if you're standing close enough, and several scanner/printers (FAX machines lol!) connected so that you could feed a hard-copy to someone on the "other side" of the "window". It would be so cool to look "across" the distributed meta-office and SEE the day/night cycle all at once though the real windows in the offices.
FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
Eh, that seems like a much cooler idea implemented with untethered VR/AR lenses rather than screens everywhere. I don't like being on camera so it personally gives me the creeps.

ghurtado 9y ago

> What person would ever want this "feature"? The disabled come to mind, for starters. The elderly, assisted living, I can think of a few use cases. Do you remember the Nextel phones? (push to talk) They were annoying as all hell in a corporate setting, but had some very valid use cases in a lot of industries, to the point of being the #1 feature of a Nextel.

cptskippy 9y ago
There are definitely use cases for them. I was talking to a nurse the other day who was trying to track someone down on campus and she lamented "I wish we could just go back to our old Nextels".
derefr 9y ago
Given that both sides of the link are fixed, rather than mobile, devices, Nextel phones aren't quite the right comparison here. Essentially this is a video intercom.

cpcb 9y ago

I just placed a pre-order for 2 of the Echo Shows mostly for this Drop In feature. My wife and I are about to be first-time parents and for us, this is a pretty exciting product for parents compared to the other devices out there in this space. For the "drop in" feature specifically, my plan is to leave one Show in the nursery and one for my parents. They like to call us a lot, and with this device, I should be able to whitelist their device and let them "drop in" on the nursery and whatever we're doing at the time. I think a lot of people have a problem with the privacy aspect, but for us, I don't see why we would have a problem with my parents seeing the nursery at any given time, esp with the 10sec window to decline. And then once the baby is older, we'd move the Show to the kitchen for music, looking up recipes, etc. I think there's going to be a lot of parents looking hard at this device. The intro video Amazon made is mostly for this use case as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQqxCeHhmeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQqxCeHhmeU

ionwake 9y ago
am I the only guy in this thread worried about hackers and what they would do with such a trove of data? I simply would be more comfortable considering this product if I had a good report detailing how secure the system is first.
- colemannugent 9y ago
  You're not alone. I am very surprised that people on HN of all places are so accepting of this when they are the first to tear others apart for their lack of security. A detailed technical guide to the security features of this device would almost be enough for me to buy one if their methodology was good and their security sound.
  - ionwake 9y ago
    I don't understand how an advert for a product like this does not have atleast 30 seconds dedicated to showcasing its security. Is it simply that no big data breach has ever occurred? So no one is concerned? Am I being too concerned? Is it just a matter of time before security and privacy is the priority ? Or will it never be a priority - even if a breach occurs?

thinkling 9y ago

I've actually long wanted something like this and proposed it to friends but never built it. When my friends and I got married and started having kids, contact fell off a lot -- we just didn't call as much, you get busy and you assume the others are busy putting kids to bed, etc. etc. What I wanted was a way to say "we're available to chat right now" for a handful of people I know and trust. My idea was to create a webcam into our kitchen with a limited view, turn it on when we were interested in chatting with friends, and when on it would be displayed on a dedicated tablet in our friends' kitchen, showing them that we were around and available to chat. It seems Alexa Drop-in is getting pretty close to this idea. (I think chat/messaging systems are still missing this explicit "I'm available for a synchronous chat right now" flag. Being "online" in Skype is just not quite the same thing.)

thaumasiotes 9y ago
> I think chat/messaging systems are still missing this explicit "I'm available for a synchronous chat right now" flag. Seems identical to the long-established distinction between "online" and "away" status.
- thinkling 9y ago
  I think there's a difference between "I'm available if you need me" (but I'm actually busy doing something right now) and "I'm relaxing and actively interested in chatting". I think that difference does not map well to status modes I've seen in Skype and the like.
panda88888 9y ago
IIRC in the good old days, ICQ had separate status updates for Available and Available to Chat.

rhino369 9y ago

I'd be all for it as long as it doesn't start sending my audio and video until I give an OK. I'd love to be able to talk to my family around the country instantly. I just don't wanna get caught watching porn.

mikeash 9y ago

I really don't understand this anger. I can't imagine using it either, but it's optional and off by default. If people like it, why shouldn't they have it? If they don't, they won't use it. I don't think the spying concerns are reasonable. If somebody wants to spy on somebody, there are already plenty of ways to do it. Why require that developers buy an expensive Amazon widget when you could require that they buy a $40 webcam, or better yet just say "if you don't answer the phone whenever I call you during working hours, you'd better be dead or in jail, or else you're fired."

FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
> If people like it, why shouldn't they have it? It may become the norm that even though it's still optional, society moves in a direction where people have it on by default, and you are met with confused/dissapointed faces when you explain it is uncomfortable. Or it simply becomes a cultural norm in the professional world
- mikeash 9y ago
  I don't see why it would change anything in that respect. Like I said, you can already achieve this without Amazon's fancy new box by saying, "Answer your phone when I call or you're fired."

derefr 9y ago

> EDIT: This will definitely become a feature on sites like Upwork so that buyers can make sure developers are billing them the correct hours, even though the prices are dirt cheap already. Upwork already does this; clients can watch your screen or your webcam whenever they want, if you sign up for a job that requires such. The Hansonian-em dystopia of barely-positive-utility working-to-live doesn't need Amazon's help to make its way into existence. It's already here; just unevenly distributed.

FullMtlAlcoholc 9y ago
Really, wtf? If my boss, who is a 10x coder, looks over my shoulder it's one thing because he's more or less always right with his criticism. I couldn't imagine anyone else micromanaging the dev process though

guiambros 9y ago

> What person would ever want this "feature"? I've been waiting for years for a feature like this. Seriously. My wife let our son play with her phone, so when I call her on my way home, she never picks it up. It got to a point that sometimes I have to log in into her account and activate "Lost my iPhone", so it rings at full volume. More recently I bought an Yi camera that has an intercom functionality by default, but it's clunky, app is not very friendly, I need to scream for people to hear me, etc. Having a decent intercom functionality (and bonus points for having with video too) would be a dream come true in our household. Just wondering on the interoperability with other regular Android and iOS devices...

wapz 9y ago
I feel like there are multiple problems in your situation that need to be fixed. If you cannot contact your wife in an emergency there is a problem (setting off the alarm might not be viable in an emergency). Why not give your son either his own phone, a tablet, or an old phone of yours? Or why would your wife allow the volume to be off when your son is using her phone? If your wife is not at the location of the device when you "drop-in" this still won't fix your problem.