5 ms·

This isn't that complicated or sad. You can still call anyone in the world and still text anyone in the world. Its that the remaining spaces to compete in are

This isn't that complicated or sad. You can still call anyone in the world and still text anyone in the world. Its that the remaining spaces to compete in are feature based, and features don't move forward quickly on open standards. There are plenty of working open standards to do the basics, its if you want to do anything beyond the basics that you end up in a walled garden.

mikeash 9y ago
Video calling and instant messaging have both been around for ages at this point, and remain stubbornly walled off. Both should qualify as "basics" by now. Sure, you can still SMS worldwide, as long as they have a cell phone. But non-phone devices are becoming very common. What if you want to send or receive messages on your tablet or computer. (This works OK in the Apple world, but only because they hack it by routing SMS through your phone.) Video calls don't even have that. E-mail, for example, was different. I started using online services when you had AOL, CompuServe, Prodigy, etc. all in their own little worlds. That didn't last very long before they all bridged their internal e-mail systems to the internet and everyone could talk to each other.
- tsunamifury 9y ago
  Video Calling is a HARD problem that still has not been solved even remotely to the broader markets satisfaction. Everything from latency/compression techniques to hardware is in flux. It is a long ways away from a standard that can be easily and widely adopted and work in all scenarios.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    It's hard, but I disagree that it hasn't been solved. As long as your device has a built-in camera and microphone, they pretty much Just Work these days. Sure, bringing everybody together would be tough. You'd need a lot of discussion and probably glue/bridging code between different services. But it could be done! None of the big services are even trying to integrate with each other.
  - guelo 9y ago
    When IP video calling started being worked on in the 90s it was via an open standards process, specifically h.323. Back then the web was driven more by engineers, before money men truly tookover. It is a miracle that the web itself has survived as one of the few open interoperable protocols. Though I think this golden period will soon end, strangled by the death of net neutrality on one side and proprietary walled gardens on the other. Ultimately, a commons is not compatible with unrestricted capitalism.
    - tsunamifury 9y ago
      Its easy to blame money (boogey) men when you don't understand the finite problems that have held back this space.
      - tomc1985 9y ago
        They are also very easy to blame when you do. Productization is ruining tech.
        seanp2k2 9y ago
        This. It's easy to forget that in the beginning, stuff like AOL and CompuServe offered their version of the internet, not "the internet". We've now paved the way for Comcast, Time Warner, ATT, and Verizon to do the same. Look at what the wireless ISPs already do to phones on their network today with locking, proprietary apps (many of which take advantage of zero rating), "free" phones, etc. Sadly but somewhat hilariously, the thing which might prevent them a bit from offering exclusive-to-their-network content is the fact that in the US, you often don't have a choice of which ISP to go with, so if I really wanted some content which was exclusive to ATT's network, I simply can't switch off of Comcast (apartment building with no other option, past 3 apartment buildings were the same) since they've so successfully monopolized markets. Edit: on the beginning: http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2014/04/chapter-3-part-1-compuserve-prodigy-aol-and-the-early-online-services/ http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2014/04/chapter-3-part...
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    Facetime works very well, my family uses it from 4 different continents around the world, from cities to villages, varying from toddlers to nonagenarians who didn't even go to school or know English. I don't know why something cross platform can't work as well as Facetime does. I had hope for Hangouts, but Google dropped the ball big time in terms of user complexity and quality of product as they are wont to do.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      Someone had me use Hangouts for a press livestreaming thing a couple of weeks back. I was actually surprised at how the UI had improved since I last used it. I agree that video conferencing is rather fragmented but I'm honestly not sure how much that has slowed adoption. People just don't want to use video in a lot of cases. Essentially all my internal calls are on a videoconferencing system and I doubt I turn on the webcam 25% of the time. (We do use screen sharing a fair bit though.)
    - linkregister 9y ago
      Google Duo is a vast improvement over Hangouts for quality and resilience. It has been almost as good as Facetime for me. Duo is also available on iOS and Android. It is conspicuously absent on any other platform; even Android tablets can't use Duo, let alone a Linux, Windows, or macOS machine. So it's a hell of a walled garden.
- haikuginger 9y ago
  > This works OK in the Apple world, but only because they hack it by routing SMS through your phone. Actually, not necessarily. At least with my provider (AT&T), I can set up my Mac as a validated device for WiFi calling, so I can do SMS and actual phone calls without using the iPhone as a relay.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Nifty! I must not be keeping up with the latest developments. Apparently this is possible as of about a year and a half ago.
  - conradev 9y ago
    Yes, for those looking for more details, AT&T calls it NumberSync: https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/numbersync.html https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/numbersync.html
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      T-Mobile supports this as well.
sagethesagesage 9y ago
Matrix is capable of many advanced features, and can be used as the framework for others, while being an open standard.

mikeash 9y ago

Video calling and instant messaging have both been around for ages at this point, and remain stubbornly walled off. Both should qualify as "basics" by now. Sure, you can still SMS worldwide, as long as they have a cell phone. But non-phone devices are becoming very common. What if you want to send or receive messages on your tablet or computer. (This works OK in the Apple world, but only because they hack it by routing SMS through your phone.) Video calls don't even have that. E-mail, for example, was different. I started using online services when you had AOL, CompuServe, Prodigy, etc. all in their own little worlds. That didn't last very long before they all bridged their internal e-mail systems to the internet and everyone could talk to each other.

tsunamifury 9y ago
Video Calling is a HARD problem that still has not been solved even remotely to the broader markets satisfaction. Everything from latency/compression techniques to hardware is in flux. It is a long ways away from a standard that can be easily and widely adopted and work in all scenarios.
- mikeash 9y ago
  It's hard, but I disagree that it hasn't been solved. As long as your device has a built-in camera and microphone, they pretty much Just Work these days. Sure, bringing everybody together would be tough. You'd need a lot of discussion and probably glue/bridging code between different services. But it could be done! None of the big services are even trying to integrate with each other.
- guelo 9y ago
  When IP video calling started being worked on in the 90s it was via an open standards process, specifically h.323. Back then the web was driven more by engineers, before money men truly tookover. It is a miracle that the web itself has survived as one of the few open interoperable protocols. Though I think this golden period will soon end, strangled by the death of net neutrality on one side and proprietary walled gardens on the other. Ultimately, a commons is not compatible with unrestricted capitalism.
  - tsunamifury 9y ago
    Its easy to blame money (boogey) men when you don't understand the finite problems that have held back this space.
    - tomc1985 9y ago
      They are also very easy to blame when you do. Productization is ruining tech.
      - seanp2k2 9y ago
        This. It's easy to forget that in the beginning, stuff like AOL and CompuServe offered their version of the internet, not "the internet". We've now paved the way for Comcast, Time Warner, ATT, and Verizon to do the same. Look at what the wireless ISPs already do to phones on their network today with locking, proprietary apps (many of which take advantage of zero rating), "free" phones, etc. Sadly but somewhat hilariously, the thing which might prevent them a bit from offering exclusive-to-their-network content is the fact that in the US, you often don't have a choice of which ISP to go with, so if I really wanted some content which was exclusive to ATT's network, I simply can't switch off of Comcast (apartment building with no other option, past 3 apartment buildings were the same) since they've so successfully monopolized markets. Edit: on the beginning: http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2014/04/chapter-3-part-1-compuserve-prodigy-aol-and-the-early-online-services/ http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2014/04/chapter-3-part...
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  Facetime works very well, my family uses it from 4 different continents around the world, from cities to villages, varying from toddlers to nonagenarians who didn't even go to school or know English. I don't know why something cross platform can't work as well as Facetime does. I had hope for Hangouts, but Google dropped the ball big time in terms of user complexity and quality of product as they are wont to do.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Someone had me use Hangouts for a press livestreaming thing a couple of weeks back. I was actually surprised at how the UI had improved since I last used it. I agree that video conferencing is rather fragmented but I'm honestly not sure how much that has slowed adoption. People just don't want to use video in a lot of cases. Essentially all my internal calls are on a videoconferencing system and I doubt I turn on the webcam 25% of the time. (We do use screen sharing a fair bit though.)
  - linkregister 9y ago
    Google Duo is a vast improvement over Hangouts for quality and resilience. It has been almost as good as Facetime for me. Duo is also available on iOS and Android. It is conspicuously absent on any other platform; even Android tablets can't use Duo, let alone a Linux, Windows, or macOS machine. So it's a hell of a walled garden.
haikuginger 9y ago
> This works OK in the Apple world, but only because they hack it by routing SMS through your phone. Actually, not necessarily. At least with my provider (AT&T), I can set up my Mac as a validated device for WiFi calling, so I can do SMS and actual phone calls without using the iPhone as a relay.
- mikeash 9y ago
  Nifty! I must not be keeping up with the latest developments. Apparently this is possible as of about a year and a half ago.
- conradev 9y ago
  Yes, for those looking for more details, AT&T calls it NumberSync: https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/numbersync.html https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/numbersync.html
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    T-Mobile supports this as well.

sagethesagesage 9y ago

Matrix is capable of many advanced features, and can be used as the framework for others, while being an open standard.