6 ms·

This is some good coverage of the music theory behind songwriting, which is important in making songs that sound good. However, there's another part of making

This is some good coverage of the music theory behind songwriting, which is important in making songs that sound good. However, there's another part of making music which is not covered at all here, which is the actual engineering of sounds. Think of a sound in your head and recreate it digitally—it'll involve sampling and synthesizing, there's tons of filters and sound manipulation to go through, they all go by different names and have different purposes—it's a staggering amount of arcane knowledge. Where is the learning material on how to do this without experimenting endlessly or looking up everything you see? I want a reverse dictionary of sorts, where I hear a transformation of a sound and I learn what processing it took to get there in a DAW. This would be incredibly useful to learn from.

sideshowb 9y ago
Post youtube link of sound to genre appropriate producers forum or facebook group. For the longer route this is a classic http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets
maldusiecle 9y ago
There's no easy way. As you mention, this is arcane knowledge--people really do study it for years or decades to train their ears to the appropriate levels. The two big components are standard music production techniques (reverb, compression, EQ, appropriate mic usage, etc.) and then domain-specific knowledge for the instrument (characteristics of different guitar amps, say, or synth filters).
shallot_router 9y ago
At least when it comes to synths, check out Syntorial. It's very similar to what you want, though it only covers a certain kind of synthesis. http://www.syntorial.com http://www.syntorial.com
- dceddia 9y ago
  Seconded. Syntorial is an awesome way to learn to program synthesizer sounds. It plays a sound, then you replicate it with the synth controls. It starts easy and gradually ramps up the difficulty, adding more knobs to twiddle, explaining the concepts as it goes along. It's a million times better than staring at a full synth control board, moving knobs and hoping that you figure it out eventually.
- sagefy 9y ago
  Syntorial is pretty good. If you're looking for something free (and much more basic), I have a quick video series on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwjp7Zt1GY&list=PLKzX4WhkkVJ4NP-QtR_hQdgjMtYNxkdTH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwjp7Zt1GY&list=PLKzX4WhkkV... I built it as part of my course I'm working on for Sagefy, so that would include some multiple choice practice questions too: https://sagefy.org/subjects/CgDRJPfzJuTR916HdmosA3A8/landing https://sagefy.org/subjects/CgDRJPfzJuTR916HdmosA3A8/landing But there's nothing quite like just using the tools and getting experience directly, for sure.
disantlor 9y ago
as other replies allude it's also highly genre/goal dependant. if you're trying to make your rock band sound more like led zeppelin there is a fairly fixed set of tools and instructions (albeit futile, ultimately) if you are imagining a pure sound in your head that is not straightforwardly produced by an instrument, then it gets a lot more complicated, and there are countless routes to the same goal. the experimenting is the fun part though!
empath75 9y ago
Aside from training the ear, you need a pretty sophisticated understanding of how soundwaves translate into sound.
fb03 9y ago
This is something I struggle as a weekend hobbyist musician: There is some kind of black art involved in making music, in how to get that sound you enjoy on the music you like (which is probably the music that inspires you to make music, at least in my case). What I found was that as your music making experience unfolds, you start amassing these little tricks here and there and they're only yours, usually tied to your stack of tools and the way you think. That is extremely hard to replicate and also very personal, imho that's why it's so difficult to actually pass that sound-sculpting knowledge to others, and that's why (besides the odd youtube tutorial on how to make a specific sound -- usually targeted at a specific vst, explaining which knobs to turn), we won't find many general sound sculpting learning material online. Even tho it is available if you gather around from forums and etc, it is still pretty much a personal experience. Answering your question: As the time passed, the endless experimenting diminished and I got a proper sense of what does what, and after 5 years making music I'm more able to pinpoint what I need to fiddle to transform the sound the way I want/imagine in my head. I'm still not quite there yet but if I can offer one piece of advice, that is: Don't shun the 'endlessly experimenting to find a sound'-thingy, because that's the best way you can grasp the tools. Over time you'll be able to get there faster but it's a necessity.. This is how much I evolved, without even noticing, only making tracks after tracks: Sep 07 / 2012 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/musicmaking/equal02.mp3 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/musicmaking/equal02.mp3 cringe Mar 25 / 2017 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/tracks/flipbit03%20-%20Twothousandseventeen%20%28feat.%20Marcix%29.mp3 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/tracks/flipbit03%20-%20Twothousa... cya o/
- spiffytech 9y ago
  Are more of your tracks posted online?
  - fb03 9y ago
    Yes, I post all my stuff to Soundcloud and Youtube, this way I can get constructive feedback and learn even more. Here are the channels you can listen to more of my stuff, and by all means please help me get better by commenting and feedbacking me if you can. If you make music as well I will gladly return your energy and time by commenting and giving feedback. :) Also, I usually participate on the listen thread/feedback rounds on reddit's /r/edmproduction, you'll find me there as well commenting on everyone's tracks ;) https://soundcloud.com/flipbit03 https://soundcloud.com/flipbit03 https://www.youtube.com/user/cadumimi https://www.youtube.com/user/cadumimi cya o/
hasbroslasher 9y ago
You're right that it's a staggering amount of arcane knowledge. But starting out I always recommend experimentation over getting too deep into the theory. It does help to have some baseline understanding of: 1. Frequency 2. Harmonics 3. Oscillators/Waveforms 4. Envelopes 5. Filters The only problem with the last part of your request is that even if you are to watch people design sounds for a couple of hours you might find that when you try to replicate that somewhere else it doesn't sound right. This is partially because every synth/softsynth is different and will produce different sounds and have different parameters. It can be infuriating to get a tutorial on how to produce that perfect "Bladerunner Blues" synth and come out with something that sounds totally flat and bad. To make matters worse, there are apparently 0 good tutorials on the subject - I just googled for 15 minutes to no avail. The two below cover some of it but I personally can't bear listening to the people who make these videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQVQuV-Kys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQVQuV-Kys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVlWdzoZ0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVlWdzoZ0w
- mortenjorck 9y ago
  I would even narrow that list down to one: Harmonics. Once it clicked in my mind that every sound is just a combination of sine waves, and that it's the intervals, amplitudes, and dynamics of those sines that make up everything we hear, it made sound design a lot clearer for me. Of course, finding the right waveforms, filters, and envelopes required to get to a particular pattern of sines is still the challenge, but having that understanding of the medium underlying it all makes experimentation that much more productive (and fun).
- almonj 9y ago
  Also people who have really hot Sound Tips generally don't want to give them away. If you can make a unique sound with some special trick you will have an advantage over your enemies (other musicians).
  - soundwave106 9y ago
    One problem is that every machine tends to be designed just a little bit differently. Therefore, tips on exactly recreating the sound might not necessarily translate well from one machine to another. For instance, the "Blade Runner Blues" patch as I understand it is actually one of the brass presets on the Yamaha CS-80. (Bad recording but here: https://www.firsthomebank.com/personal-banking/deposit-products/ https://www.firsthomebank.com/personal-banking/deposit-produ...) The CS-80 has a pretty unique architecture for a polyphonic analog. (http://www.cs80.com/tour.html http://www.cs80.com/tour.html) To get a patch exactly right would require replicating layout, filter architecture and structure, etc. Knowing basics synthesis, however, can get you pretty close. I have a patch on my Alesis Andromeda (which has some CS-80 type elements such as a ribbon controller, dual resonant filters, and an unfiltered sine that goes to the post-filter mix) that someone did in a user community -- it came out decently good. I was able to Google a book page that gives a good overview of recreating it on other synths. (https://books.google.com/books?id=Jz1JMnZNO88C&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=vangelis+blade+runner+sawtooth&source=bl&ots=NOAFI2NZIl&sig=vVhSswupE1Qr-YVSFPOVZ3Rytwc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNlcqlxePTAhUKiCwKHbmWADAQ6AEIQDAF#v=onepage&q=vangelis%20blade%20runner%20sawtooth&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=Jz1JMnZNO88C&pg=PA74&lpg=P...) Now, to really get the Vangelis Blade Runner type effect, you have to be able to play a synthesizer expressively. This is unfortunately is tougher on most synths compared to the CS-80, due to the CS-80's polyphonic aftertouch that most synths lack. That being said, there are other techniques people could do. I understand that Vangelis used pedals to manipulate filter and volume, and that is something that can be done on many synths that I don't see a lot of people taking advantage of. Don't discount playing technique when it comes to the art of sound design, in other words.
bbgm 9y ago
It's one reason I like monosynths (or or two oscillators). Really helps you understand basic subtractive synthesis. Then you can layer on. A very simple modular system can help too because you have to understand the fundamental of sound and modulation.
puranjay 9y ago
Oh man that is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down. Modern software synths are extremely complex, but also extremely powerful. I mean, look at the interface for Serum, probably the best synth on the market right now: https://d84g6yundlaof.cloudfront.net/assets/serum/serumall-b4e3f2c19f47e68cff7b1767eb7af20d629844ba1dfae517ed57ee796bc0b8d9.gif https://d84g6yundlaof.cloudfront.net/assets/serum/serumall-b... It looks like an airplane's cockpit. Sound design is a whole another part of music. Most amateur musicians don't even bother with it because it is way to technical to master. They just use presets. I personally hate it, but if you have a technical bent, you might enjoy it
- teilo 9y ago
  Serum is the easiest synth I have ever used. There are a lot of controls, but they all make sense. And if one is just starting out, they can ignore most of the controls and focus on just the basics: Waveform, envelop, filter. Then move to modulation starting with LFOs. (Modulation is where Serum really shines. It is literally drag-and-drop. Compared to the modulation matrices that many synths use, it's a cake walk.) If you think Serum look complex, take a look at Zebra 2.
hashmal 9y ago
The people at Ableton are well aware of this (the term "the studio as an instrument" comes up quite often at their event "Loop") but I'm not sure there's a better way to learn besides experimenting. I've heard quite a lot of stories about (electronic) music creators telling about their beginnings, how they would ask for help to more experimented friends, how they would reply "no, just try things", then how they felt in the end it was a good thing once it "clicked."
omegote 9y ago
THIS, this right here. That idea has come to my mind many times, having something like a library of "recipes" for sounds. The hardest part for me whenever I try to do something in FL Studio is getting the source samples and make them sound the way I want individually. It's a shame to have an idea for a song in my head and not being able to materialize it just because I don't know what kind of plugin or instrument I should use.

sideshowb 9y ago

Post youtube link of sound to genre appropriate producers forum or facebook group. For the longer route this is a classic http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/synth-secrets

maldusiecle 9y ago

There's no easy way. As you mention, this is arcane knowledge--people really do study it for years or decades to train their ears to the appropriate levels. The two big components are standard music production techniques (reverb, compression, EQ, appropriate mic usage, etc.) and then domain-specific knowledge for the instrument (characteristics of different guitar amps, say, or synth filters).

shallot_router 9y ago

At least when it comes to synths, check out Syntorial. It's very similar to what you want, though it only covers a certain kind of synthesis. http://www.syntorial.com http://www.syntorial.com

dceddia 9y ago
Seconded. Syntorial is an awesome way to learn to program synthesizer sounds. It plays a sound, then you replicate it with the synth controls. It starts easy and gradually ramps up the difficulty, adding more knobs to twiddle, explaining the concepts as it goes along. It's a million times better than staring at a full synth control board, moving knobs and hoping that you figure it out eventually.
sagefy 9y ago
Syntorial is pretty good. If you're looking for something free (and much more basic), I have a quick video series on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwjp7Zt1GY&list=PLKzX4WhkkVJ4NP-QtR_hQdgjMtYNxkdTH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwjp7Zt1GY&list=PLKzX4WhkkV... I built it as part of my course I'm working on for Sagefy, so that would include some multiple choice practice questions too: https://sagefy.org/subjects/CgDRJPfzJuTR916HdmosA3A8/landing https://sagefy.org/subjects/CgDRJPfzJuTR916HdmosA3A8/landing But there's nothing quite like just using the tools and getting experience directly, for sure.

disantlor 9y ago

as other replies allude it's also highly genre/goal dependant. if you're trying to make your rock band sound more like led zeppelin there is a fairly fixed set of tools and instructions (albeit futile, ultimately) if you are imagining a pure sound in your head that is not straightforwardly produced by an instrument, then it gets a lot more complicated, and there are countless routes to the same goal. the experimenting is the fun part though!

empath75 9y ago

Aside from training the ear, you need a pretty sophisticated understanding of how soundwaves translate into sound.

fb03 9y ago

This is something I struggle as a weekend hobbyist musician: There is some kind of black art involved in making music, in how to get that sound you enjoy on the music you like (which is probably the music that inspires you to make music, at least in my case). What I found was that as your music making experience unfolds, you start amassing these little tricks here and there and they're only yours, usually tied to your stack of tools and the way you think. That is extremely hard to replicate and also very personal, imho that's why it's so difficult to actually pass that sound-sculpting knowledge to others, and that's why (besides the odd youtube tutorial on how to make a specific sound -- usually targeted at a specific vst, explaining which knobs to turn), we won't find many general sound sculpting learning material online. Even tho it is available if you gather around from forums and etc, it is still pretty much a personal experience. Answering your question: As the time passed, the endless experimenting diminished and I got a proper sense of what does what, and after 5 years making music I'm more able to pinpoint what I need to fiddle to transform the sound the way I want/imagine in my head. I'm still not quite there yet but if I can offer one piece of advice, that is: Don't shun the 'endlessly experimenting to find a sound'-thingy, because that's the best way you can grasp the tools. Over time you'll be able to get there faster but it's a necessity.. This is how much I evolved, without even noticing, only making tracks after tracks: Sep 07 / 2012 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/musicmaking/equal02.mp3 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/musicmaking/equal02.mp3 cringe Mar 25 / 2017 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/tracks/flipbit03%20-%20Twothousandseventeen%20%28feat.%20Marcix%29.mp3 http://codegrub.org/flipbit/tracks/flipbit03%20-%20Twothousa... cya o/

spiffytech 9y ago
Are more of your tracks posted online?
- fb03 9y ago
  Yes, I post all my stuff to Soundcloud and Youtube, this way I can get constructive feedback and learn even more. Here are the channels you can listen to more of my stuff, and by all means please help me get better by commenting and feedbacking me if you can. If you make music as well I will gladly return your energy and time by commenting and giving feedback. :) Also, I usually participate on the listen thread/feedback rounds on reddit's /r/edmproduction, you'll find me there as well commenting on everyone's tracks ;) https://soundcloud.com/flipbit03 https://soundcloud.com/flipbit03 https://www.youtube.com/user/cadumimi https://www.youtube.com/user/cadumimi cya o/

hasbroslasher 9y ago

You're right that it's a staggering amount of arcane knowledge. But starting out I always recommend experimentation over getting too deep into the theory. It does help to have some baseline understanding of: 1. Frequency 2. Harmonics 3. Oscillators/Waveforms 4. Envelopes 5. Filters The only problem with the last part of your request is that even if you are to watch people design sounds for a couple of hours you might find that when you try to replicate that somewhere else it doesn't sound right. This is partially because every synth/softsynth is different and will produce different sounds and have different parameters. It can be infuriating to get a tutorial on how to produce that perfect "Bladerunner Blues" synth and come out with something that sounds totally flat and bad. To make matters worse, there are apparently 0 good tutorials on the subject - I just googled for 15 minutes to no avail. The two below cover some of it but I personally can't bear listening to the people who make these videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQVQuV-Kys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQVQuV-Kys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVlWdzoZ0w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJVlWdzoZ0w

mortenjorck 9y ago
I would even narrow that list down to one: Harmonics. Once it clicked in my mind that every sound is just a combination of sine waves, and that it's the intervals, amplitudes, and dynamics of those sines that make up everything we hear, it made sound design a lot clearer for me. Of course, finding the right waveforms, filters, and envelopes required to get to a particular pattern of sines is still the challenge, but having that understanding of the medium underlying it all makes experimentation that much more productive (and fun).
almonj 9y ago
Also people who have really hot Sound Tips generally don't want to give them away. If you can make a unique sound with some special trick you will have an advantage over your enemies (other musicians).
- soundwave106 9y ago
  One problem is that every machine tends to be designed just a little bit differently. Therefore, tips on exactly recreating the sound might not necessarily translate well from one machine to another. For instance, the "Blade Runner Blues" patch as I understand it is actually one of the brass presets on the Yamaha CS-80. (Bad recording but here: https://www.firsthomebank.com/personal-banking/deposit-products/ https://www.firsthomebank.com/personal-banking/deposit-produ...) The CS-80 has a pretty unique architecture for a polyphonic analog. (http://www.cs80.com/tour.html http://www.cs80.com/tour.html) To get a patch exactly right would require replicating layout, filter architecture and structure, etc. Knowing basics synthesis, however, can get you pretty close. I have a patch on my Alesis Andromeda (which has some CS-80 type elements such as a ribbon controller, dual resonant filters, and an unfiltered sine that goes to the post-filter mix) that someone did in a user community -- it came out decently good. I was able to Google a book page that gives a good overview of recreating it on other synths. (https://books.google.com/books?id=Jz1JMnZNO88C&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=vangelis+blade+runner+sawtooth&source=bl&ots=NOAFI2NZIl&sig=vVhSswupE1Qr-YVSFPOVZ3Rytwc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNlcqlxePTAhUKiCwKHbmWADAQ6AEIQDAF#v=onepage&q=vangelis%20blade%20runner%20sawtooth&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=Jz1JMnZNO88C&pg=PA74&lpg=P...) Now, to really get the Vangelis Blade Runner type effect, you have to be able to play a synthesizer expressively. This is unfortunately is tougher on most synths compared to the CS-80, due to the CS-80's polyphonic aftertouch that most synths lack. That being said, there are other techniques people could do. I understand that Vangelis used pedals to manipulate filter and volume, and that is something that can be done on many synths that I don't see a lot of people taking advantage of. Don't discount playing technique when it comes to the art of sound design, in other words.

bbgm 9y ago

It's one reason I like monosynths (or or two oscillators). Really helps you understand basic subtractive synthesis. Then you can layer on. A very simple modular system can help too because you have to understand the fundamental of sound and modulation.

puranjay 9y ago

Oh man that is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down. Modern software synths are extremely complex, but also extremely powerful. I mean, look at the interface for Serum, probably the best synth on the market right now: https://d84g6yundlaof.cloudfront.net/assets/serum/serumall-b4e3f2c19f47e68cff7b1767eb7af20d629844ba1dfae517ed57ee796bc0b8d9.gif https://d84g6yundlaof.cloudfront.net/assets/serum/serumall-b... It looks like an airplane's cockpit. Sound design is a whole another part of music. Most amateur musicians don't even bother with it because it is way to technical to master. They just use presets. I personally hate it, but if you have a technical bent, you might enjoy it

teilo 9y ago
Serum is the easiest synth I have ever used. There are a lot of controls, but they all make sense. And if one is just starting out, they can ignore most of the controls and focus on just the basics: Waveform, envelop, filter. Then move to modulation starting with LFOs. (Modulation is where Serum really shines. It is literally drag-and-drop. Compared to the modulation matrices that many synths use, it's a cake walk.) If you think Serum look complex, take a look at Zebra 2.

hashmal 9y ago

The people at Ableton are well aware of this (the term "the studio as an instrument" comes up quite often at their event "Loop") but I'm not sure there's a better way to learn besides experimenting. I've heard quite a lot of stories about (electronic) music creators telling about their beginnings, how they would ask for help to more experimented friends, how they would reply "no, just try things", then how they felt in the end it was a good thing once it "clicked."

omegote 9y ago

THIS, this right here. That idea has come to my mind many times, having something like a library of "recipes" for sounds. The hardest part for me whenever I try to do something in FL Studio is getting the source samples and make them sound the way I want individually. It's a shame to have an idea for a song in my head and not being able to materialize it just because I don't know what kind of plugin or instrument I should use.