4 ms·

USB Type-C and power delivery 101 – Ports and connections

40 points by neverminder 9y ago

dheera 9y ago
Sow now I have devices of all of these varieties: - Mini-USB (stupid bike lights ...) - normal Micro-USB (battery packs, smartwatch, flashlight) - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 2.0 that heats up and drains its batteries if plugged into a non-QC charger (phone) - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 3.0 that refuses to charge in a QC 2.0 charger but will charge in a non-QC charger (battery pack) - low-voltage USB-C that my high-voltage USB-C adapter refuses to charge (another phone) - high-voltage USB-C that won't accept low voltage USB-C (laptop) Travelling has officially become a bag full of AC adapters and wire mess again. I miss the barrel connectors of the old days. They came in far fewer varieties than these silly USB connectors. And the USB connectors break if you smack the cable by accident. The other day I had a USB-C socket that got snapped right off the PCB because the protruding cable bumped into something. Who designed these things?! Connectors being torqued off PCBs was nearly unheard-of 15 years ago.
- neverminder 9y ago
  In my opinion some kind of standard is better than no standard. Now is an unavoidable transitional period and if all goes well within a few years most of portable devices will charge through USB Type-C by default. I don't agree with Qualcomm's approach, but it's always like that when some major standard is emerging - big players will at least try to pull some proprietary crap. I am an early adopter of USB Type-C charging and I've selected my devices with that in mind, so for me it works flawlessly. I have a laptop Chromebook Pixel LS (2015) and a phone Nexus 6P. I can charge the phone with laptop's charger (it has variable voltage) and vice versa. The only difference obviously is that laptop charges considerably slower with phone charger, but I can plug it from either side, which for laptop users is very convenient. When was the last time you could do that with a barrel connector?
  - lojack 9y ago
    > if all goes well within a few years most of portable devices will charge through USB Type-C by default I feel like I've heard this one before. If history repeats itself in a few years there will be a new standard that does something better and 30% of manufacturers will switch to that.
- qb45 9y ago
  > Connectors being torqued off PCBs was nearly unheard-of 15 years ago. Well, 10 years ago my sister snapped off a mini jack which isn't that far from a barrel jack. It really is a problem with those stupid surface-mount connectors without through-hole mounting tabs. Even USB-C and micro-USB can be had with through-hole tabs, but I bet these are more expensive to assemble.
- mpweiher 9y ago
  Interesting. My life (well, the "powering electronic devices" part of my life) got a lot easier with the new MacBook Pro, because now I have a single adapter that can power all my devices directly. Alternatively, I can power the same devices via my laptop via the same cables. While getting rid of some of these connector types would certainly be welcome, it wouldn't reduce my cable carrying burden that much because I'd still want to be able to charge my laptop at the same time as my phone, for example.
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  > - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 2.0 that heats up and drains its batteries if plugged into a non-QC charger (phone) > - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 3.0 that refuses to charge in a QC 2.0 charger but will charge in a non-QC charger (battery pack) Which devices are these, if you don't mind sharing? My QC devices (LG G5, battery pack for G5, Moto X) work fine on either 2.0 or 3.0, or a 500 mA slow charger, or a 2A 'tablet' charger.
  - dheera 9y ago
    First one is my Nexus 6. Plug it into a non-QC charger and it will go into a runaway discharge mode. Plug it into a QC charger and it charges up very fast. On a similar note my Nexus 10 (not a QC device) will go into a similar runaway discharge if plugged into a 1-amp USB port instead of a 2-amp port. Second one is a certain particular Anker battery pack.
    - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
      Wow, Nexus and Anker devices? I would have been less surprised if it was some off-brand or a manufacturer known for incompatibility, but those should be fine. Here's hoping this will all smooth out and we'll eventually have uniform quick charge technology.
- averagewall 9y ago
  Can you elaborate on the last two? Do you mean power delivery (PD) devices that don't degrade gracefully when connected to non PD devices? It sounds like they must be violating the standard. In that case, it's hopefully something we'll see improve with time. If it really is the standard, that's terrible!
  - dheera 9y ago
    I think they violate the standard. But I guess that is bound to happen when the standard is so complicated to implement correctly.
- gumby 9y ago
  > I miss the barrel connectors of the old days. They came in far fewer varieties than these silly USB connectors. Perhaps, but there was no standard either, so that two identical barrel connectors could have opposite polarity and different voltage and power levels. You had to keep track of which brick went with which device. DIN connectors were worse. > And the USB connectors break if you smack the cable by accident. Those barrel connectors are longer and so provide even more leverage..
  - lightedman 9y ago
    "Those barrel connectors are longer and so provide even more leverage.." Those are rarely surface-mount components, though. Even in my new sound chair, the input and output jacks are thru-hole.
- lightedman 9y ago
  "Connectors being torqued off PCBs was nearly unheard-of 15 years ago." That's because we were still primarily doing through-hole soldering, and SMD wasn't such a big thing, yet.
metaphor 9y ago
SBU1, SBU2...le sigh. Such a disappointment that despite USB-IF continuing to make their specs (and then some) openly accessible to the public, VESA has placed anything relevant to modern DisplayPort behind a $10k/annum corporate paywall, then proceeds to rub salt in the wound by teasing non-members with less than a handful for purchase[1], e.g. $350 for the latest DSC. [1] https://www.vesa.org/store/ https://www.vesa.org/store/
- IgorPartola 9y ago
  Can you elaborate on what you mean?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
gumby 9y ago
Power delivery is great, but the terrible error in USB Type C has come in their adoption of the IETF's dictum that one should be liberal in what one accepts and strict in what one generates. What this means is that the consumer has no idea if their cable will "work". If you plug a slow cable between two Type-C devices that support thunderbolt, data will still flow, perhaps at USB 2 speeds. Power may only trickle through a cable between a powerful power supply and a laptop that needs it (A good outcome, in that it reduces fire, but still...). That video device may never connect even though it's plugged in. Etc They should have put some shape or color or other coding requirement on the cable overmoulds and outlets. At least in the old days you could mostly tell visually and geometrically if you had the right data cable.

40 points by neverminder 9y ago

Sow now I have devices of all of these varieties: - Mini-USB (stupid bike lights ...) - normal Micro-USB (battery packs, smartwatch, flashlight) - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 2.0 that heats up and drains its batteries if plugged into a non-QC charger (phone) - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 3.0 that refuses to charge in a QC 2.0 charger but will charge in a non-QC charger (battery pack) - low-voltage USB-C that my high-voltage USB-C adapter refuses to charge (another phone) - high-voltage USB-C that won't accept low voltage USB-C (laptop) Travelling has officially become a bag full of AC adapters and wire mess again. I miss the barrel connectors of the old days. They came in far fewer varieties than these silly USB connectors. And the USB connectors break if you smack the cable by accident. The other day I had a USB-C socket that got snapped right off the PCB because the protruding cable bumped into something. Who designed these things?! Connectors being torqued off PCBs was nearly unheard-of 15 years ago.

neverminder 9y ago
In my opinion some kind of standard is better than no standard. Now is an unavoidable transitional period and if all goes well within a few years most of portable devices will charge through USB Type-C by default. I don't agree with Qualcomm's approach, but it's always like that when some major standard is emerging - big players will at least try to pull some proprietary crap. I am an early adopter of USB Type-C charging and I've selected my devices with that in mind, so for me it works flawlessly. I have a laptop Chromebook Pixel LS (2015) and a phone Nexus 6P. I can charge the phone with laptop's charger (it has variable voltage) and vice versa. The only difference obviously is that laptop charges considerably slower with phone charger, but I can plug it from either side, which for laptop users is very convenient. When was the last time you could do that with a barrel connector?
- lojack 9y ago
  > if all goes well within a few years most of portable devices will charge through USB Type-C by default I feel like I've heard this one before. If history repeats itself in a few years there will be a new standard that does something better and 30% of manufacturers will switch to that.
qb45 9y ago
> Connectors being torqued off PCBs was nearly unheard-of 15 years ago. Well, 10 years ago my sister snapped off a mini jack which isn't that far from a barrel jack. It really is a problem with those stupid surface-mount connectors without through-hole mounting tabs. Even USB-C and micro-USB can be had with through-hole tabs, but I bet these are more expensive to assemble.
mpweiher 9y ago
Interesting. My life (well, the "powering electronic devices" part of my life) got a lot easier with the new MacBook Pro, because now I have a single adapter that can power all my devices directly. Alternatively, I can power the same devices via my laptop via the same cables. While getting rid of some of these connector types would certainly be welcome, it wouldn't reduce my cable carrying burden that much because I'd still want to be able to charge my laptop at the same time as my phone, for example.
LeifCarrotson 9y ago
> - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 2.0 that heats up and drains its batteries if plugged into a non-QC charger (phone) > - Qualcomm™ Quick© Charge® 3.0 that refuses to charge in a QC 2.0 charger but will charge in a non-QC charger (battery pack) Which devices are these, if you don't mind sharing? My QC devices (LG G5, battery pack for G5, Moto X) work fine on either 2.0 or 3.0, or a 500 mA slow charger, or a 2A 'tablet' charger.
- dheera 9y ago
  First one is my Nexus 6. Plug it into a non-QC charger and it will go into a runaway discharge mode. Plug it into a QC charger and it charges up very fast. On a similar note my Nexus 10 (not a QC device) will go into a similar runaway discharge if plugged into a 1-amp USB port instead of a 2-amp port. Second one is a certain particular Anker battery pack.
  - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
    Wow, Nexus and Anker devices? I would have been less surprised if it was some off-brand or a manufacturer known for incompatibility, but those should be fine. Here's hoping this will all smooth out and we'll eventually have uniform quick charge technology.
averagewall 9y ago
Can you elaborate on the last two? Do you mean power delivery (PD) devices that don't degrade gracefully when connected to non PD devices? It sounds like they must be violating the standard. In that case, it's hopefully something we'll see improve with time. If it really is the standard, that's terrible!
- dheera 9y ago
  I think they violate the standard. But I guess that is bound to happen when the standard is so complicated to implement correctly.
gumby 9y ago
> I miss the barrel connectors of the old days. They came in far fewer varieties than these silly USB connectors. Perhaps, but there was no standard either, so that two identical barrel connectors could have opposite polarity and different voltage and power levels. You had to keep track of which brick went with which device. DIN connectors were worse. > And the USB connectors break if you smack the cable by accident. Those barrel connectors are longer and so provide even more leverage..
- lightedman 9y ago
  "Those barrel connectors are longer and so provide even more leverage.." Those are rarely surface-mount components, though. Even in my new sound chair, the input and output jacks are thru-hole.
lightedman 9y ago
"Connectors being torqued off PCBs was nearly unheard-of 15 years ago." That's because we were still primarily doing through-hole soldering, and SMD wasn't such a big thing, yet.

metaphor 9y ago

SBU1, SBU2...le sigh. Such a disappointment that despite USB-IF continuing to make their specs (and then some) openly accessible to the public, VESA has placed anything relevant to modern DisplayPort behind a $10k/annum corporate paywall, then proceeds to rub salt in the wound by teasing non-members with less than a handful for purchase[1], e.g. $350 for the latest DSC. [1] https://www.vesa.org/store/ https://www.vesa.org/store/

IgorPartola 9y ago
Can you elaborate on what you mean?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

gumby 9y ago

Power delivery is great, but the terrible error in USB Type C has come in their adoption of the IETF's dictum that one should be liberal in what one accepts and strict in what one generates. What this means is that the consumer has no idea if their cable will "work". If you plug a slow cable between two Type-C devices that support thunderbolt, data will still flow, perhaps at USB 2 speeds. Power may only trickle through a cable between a powerful power supply and a laptop that needs it (A good outcome, in that it reduces fire, but still...). That video device may never connect even though it's plugged in. Etc They should have put some shape or color or other coding requirement on the cable overmoulds and outlets. At least in the old days you could mostly tell visually and geometrically if you had the right data cable.