7 ms·

>once abandoned she can be arrested for being in public without a man. Raped. Then whipped for adultery because she was raped. Seriously, if you put it in a nov

by cup 9y ago

>once abandoned she can be arrested for being in public without a man. Raped. Then whipped for adultery because she was raped. Seriously, if you put it in a novel about a fictitious country you'd be accused of hyperbole. The fact that this can be posted and unchallenged for 2 hours on this website is interesting considering the userbase typically touts themselves as on the right end of the intellectual bell curve.

programmarchy 9y ago
But the left end of the political curve. And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat, all Muslims have become immune to criticism.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat Muslims immigrants were, at least up until post-9/11 scapegoating, a fairly reliable Republican voting bloc. If there has been a shift since, it was a reaction to (rather than the cause of) the absence (or at least lesser level) of anti-Muslim rhetoric from the Democrats. But the Left (or Democrats, which aren't the same thing, but it's true either way) have not treated all Muslims as beyond criticism, they've just tended to avoid bigoted, sweeping attacks on Muslims as a group or Islam itself.
  - mc32 9y ago
    an observation is the left will look the other way if they can use a group or coopt a group to further a cause --moreso if the group is considered underprivileged in the US --never mind their status in their home country or what they do to others in their home country, or the ideas they espouse at home or in the US, so long as they can be used to a political end. Some republicans do something similar with a couple of countries in the ME who are on the other side of the spectrum. The difference, as I can tell is dems like to play identity politcs a lot, the repubs don't care as long as you share their pro-biz agenda.
    - mercer 9y ago
      A more charitable, and in my opinion more accurate observation is that equality for the underprivileged is in itself an important cause for the left, more so than for the right, but like any movement there are plenty of people who coopt that for personal ends. I'm inclined to feel that the latter is more problematic on the Republican side because a pro-biz agenda is more directly beneficial to opportunists, but honestly I don't think it's very useful to spend much time discussing which side is more evil. At the very least I don't think Democrats are worse than Republicans when it comes to 'coopting'. To be clear, I don't identify as strictly left, although I'm probably more left than right if I had to pick. And I'm also not saying that 'the right' doesn't care about the underprivileged; far from it! Rather it seems to be less part of their core agenda (for reasons that I've become somewhat more sympathetic to over the past years).
Iv 9y ago
Rape victims are punished in Saudi Arabia: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/11/15/saudi-arabia-rape-victim-punished-speaking-out https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/11/15/saudi-arabia-rape-victim... Unilateral and immediate divorce by males for no reason is legal in Saudi Arabia (talaq) and just forces the husband to provide support for 4 months: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia#Family_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia#F... Being in violation of gender segregation is a punishable offense more harshly punished than rape: http://www.webcitation.org/6JdMstMvl http://www.webcitation.org/6JdMstMvl Until 2015, divorced women had no legal status: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/02/saudi-arabian-divorced-women-and-widows-to-get-greater-legal-powers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/02/saudi-arabian-... You know, I will fight unjustified islamophobic caricature anytime, amywhere, but Saudi Arabia is the epitome of why theocracies suck and is at the root of many things that gives Islam a bad name. Bin Laden, ISIS, salafist imams in Europe, etc... We overthrew the Talebans (partly) for moral reasons. If we had been serious and honest about these reasons, Saudi Arabia should have been on the "axis of evil" too.
- cup 9y ago
  Rape victims arn't punished in Saudi Arabia. Theres no crime of being raped. The woman in your one anecdotal point was charged with a seperate case of adultery during a rape trial that wasn't in conjunction with the rape. Furthermore the rapists were charged and punished for rape, an act that is illegal. If you want to argue about adultery being a crime then go for it but don't conflate to topics to spread something factually incorrect. Theres plenty of things to criticise Saudi for. Just like theres plenty of things to criticise America for (institutional racism, foreign policy, drug laws etc) and every other country. "I will fight unjustified islamophobic caricature anytime". Evidently you won't because here you are spreading caricatures of islam targeting rape victims. "We overthrew the Talebans (partly) for moral reasons. If we had been serious and honest about these reasons, Saudi Arabia should have been on the "axis of evil" too." If you were serious about "these reasons" then America would probably be higher on the list than 3rd world Afghanistan. Come on now.
  - mveety 9y ago
tropo 9y ago
It's close enough. Technically, it works like this: She claims to be raped. By doing so, she admits that sex occurred outside of marriage, and now she must prove that it was a rape. Sharia requires 4 male witnesses to prove this. Good luck with that. Unless the rapist was dumb enough to attack while watched by 4 males who would be willing to testify, he can't be convicted. She confessed to the sex though, so she will be convicted.

by cup 9y ago

programmarchy 9y ago

But the left end of the political curve. And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat, all Muslims have become immune to criticism.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> And since Muslim immigrants tend to vote Democrat Muslims immigrants were, at least up until post-9/11 scapegoating, a fairly reliable Republican voting bloc. If there has been a shift since, it was a reaction to (rather than the cause of) the absence (or at least lesser level) of anti-Muslim rhetoric from the Democrats. But the Left (or Democrats, which aren't the same thing, but it's true either way) have not treated all Muslims as beyond criticism, they've just tended to avoid bigoted, sweeping attacks on Muslims as a group or Islam itself.
- mc32 9y ago
  an observation is the left will look the other way if they can use a group or coopt a group to further a cause --moreso if the group is considered underprivileged in the US --never mind their status in their home country or what they do to others in their home country, or the ideas they espouse at home or in the US, so long as they can be used to a political end. Some republicans do something similar with a couple of countries in the ME who are on the other side of the spectrum. The difference, as I can tell is dems like to play identity politcs a lot, the repubs don't care as long as you share their pro-biz agenda.
  - mercer 9y ago
    A more charitable, and in my opinion more accurate observation is that equality for the underprivileged is in itself an important cause for the left, more so than for the right, but like any movement there are plenty of people who coopt that for personal ends. I'm inclined to feel that the latter is more problematic on the Republican side because a pro-biz agenda is more directly beneficial to opportunists, but honestly I don't think it's very useful to spend much time discussing which side is more evil. At the very least I don't think Democrats are worse than Republicans when it comes to 'coopting'. To be clear, I don't identify as strictly left, although I'm probably more left than right if I had to pick. And I'm also not saying that 'the right' doesn't care about the underprivileged; far from it! Rather it seems to be less part of their core agenda (for reasons that I've become somewhat more sympathetic to over the past years).

Iv 9y ago

Rape victims are punished in Saudi Arabia: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/11/15/saudi-arabia-rape-victim-punished-speaking-out https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/11/15/saudi-arabia-rape-victim... Unilateral and immediate divorce by males for no reason is legal in Saudi Arabia (talaq) and just forces the husband to provide support for 4 months: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia#Family_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia#F... Being in violation of gender segregation is a punishable offense more harshly punished than rape: http://www.webcitation.org/6JdMstMvl http://www.webcitation.org/6JdMstMvl Until 2015, divorced women had no legal status: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/02/saudi-arabian-divorced-women-and-widows-to-get-greater-legal-powers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/02/saudi-arabian-... You know, I will fight unjustified islamophobic caricature anytime, amywhere, but Saudi Arabia is the epitome of why theocracies suck and is at the root of many things that gives Islam a bad name. Bin Laden, ISIS, salafist imams in Europe, etc... We overthrew the Talebans (partly) for moral reasons. If we had been serious and honest about these reasons, Saudi Arabia should have been on the "axis of evil" too.

cup 9y ago
Rape victims arn't punished in Saudi Arabia. Theres no crime of being raped. The woman in your one anecdotal point was charged with a seperate case of adultery during a rape trial that wasn't in conjunction with the rape. Furthermore the rapists were charged and punished for rape, an act that is illegal. If you want to argue about adultery being a crime then go for it but don't conflate to topics to spread something factually incorrect. Theres plenty of things to criticise Saudi for. Just like theres plenty of things to criticise America for (institutional racism, foreign policy, drug laws etc) and every other country. "I will fight unjustified islamophobic caricature anytime". Evidently you won't because here you are spreading caricatures of islam targeting rape victims. "We overthrew the Talebans (partly) for moral reasons. If we had been serious and honest about these reasons, Saudi Arabia should have been on the "axis of evil" too." If you were serious about "these reasons" then America would probably be higher on the list than 3rd world Afghanistan. Come on now.
- mveety 9y ago

tropo 9y ago

It's close enough. Technically, it works like this: She claims to be raped. By doing so, she admits that sex occurred outside of marriage, and now she must prove that it was a rape. Sharia requires 4 male witnesses to prove this. Good luck with that. Unless the rapist was dumb enough to attack while watched by 4 males who would be willing to testify, he can't be convicted. She confessed to the sex though, so she will be convicted.