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First, you have to convince them that science is a good thing. I have a friend, who literally believes that scientists are either evil people, who's primary goa
by devrandomguy 9y ago
First, you have to convince them that science is a good thing. I have a friend, who literally believes that scientists are either evil people, who's primary goal is to gain power over others by outsmarting them, or, willfully ignorant tools of a predatory political / economic system. To him, big-S Scientists represent a threat to his way of life.
I reminded him that many of my own family members, people that he trusts, work in scientific endeavors; a marine biologist, for example, who has dedicated his life to the wellbeing of the various Pacific salmon species, for the sake of our food supply and forest health. He just lumped me into the second category, insisting that salmon are only managed for profit. That the funding for wild salmon research was being redirected towards improving the yield of fish farms, to the detriment of both the forests of western Canada, and to the detriment of the families and communities that live off of the wild salmon fisheries.
We don't talk much anymore. In order to convince people like this to support science, instead of attacking it, we must convince them of two things: that "real, working" scientists have a conscience, and that they have the power to follow their conscience without losing their status as real, working, scientists.
- alphonsegaston 9y agoConvincing people this far gone down the rabbit hole of ideology is actually not politically effective or expedient. You're just as likely to convince an Objectivist that Maoism is the way to go. The more effective strategy, which Trump employed, is to find people on the edge of indecision in opportune areas and tailor your message to their interests.
- devrandomguy 9y agoYes, that is what I do. Like I said, now that him and I have made our positions clear, we no longer attempt to communicate with each other. I can only hope that he discovers the value of rational thought on his own, and I imagine that he is hoping that I will someday choose loyalty to my peers over cold logic.
- imchillyb 9y ago> ... now that him and I have made our positions clear, we no longer attempt to communicate with each other. @devrandomguy Well, that's disgusting. What you're intimating is that if you cannot convince someone that they're wrong, you want nothing to do with them. Horrid. Instead of always being right, how about you try tact? Ask non-related questions, and show interest in his chosen hobbies or field of study/work. The above is no reason to /disconnect/ from another human being. It's reason to get to know them better. Lead by example, not by force-feeding them your dogma. You'd probably benefit from some light reading: How to Win Friends & Influence People: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H38S9FY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H38S9FY/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...
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- gnaritas 9y ago> The above is no reason to /disconnect/ from another human being. Sure it is; finding out another person is incapable of rational thought is a great reason to remove them from your life. You can't fix stupid and why would you want to be connected to someone whom you're only ever going to continually disagree with because they lack the ability of reason? > It's reason to get to know them better. Lead by example, not by force-feeding them your dogma. You can't fix those people or lead them anywhere, they're the ones stuck in dogma, not him.
- 8iterations 9y agoI see you are just a random developer guy, so I would recommend you talk to your friend more. Then, improve your skillset in the sciences, so that you may outsmart him/her and put whatever resources they possess to better use.
- devrandomguy 9y agoIn my opinion, this would only reinforce his assumptions, and possibly even radicalize him to the point of violent rebellion. It would be a form of oppression, and we all know how that plays out over the long term. Sun Tzu's philosophy of "taking whole", of carefully manipulating your opponent into aligning their goals with yours, is the best strategy that I can come up with. But, because of the communication barrier between us, I am unsure of how to apply it.
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- analog31 9y agoPersonally, I think people need to meet more scientists, and get to know us. But, for reasons that probably include both economics and culture, we're concentrated in specific places and social settings.
- stupidhn 9y ago>I have a friend, who literally believes that scientists are either evil people, who's primary goal is to gain power over others by outsmarting them, or, willfully ignorant tools of a predatory political / economic system. Replace scientists with bankers and you have HackerNews, which in my opinion is equally ridiculous. I guess the lunacy is spilling over. Who'd have thunk it.
- dang 9y agoWould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN?