5 ms·

We've measured productivity of remote work compared to in house work. I work in the public sector so it's mainly not programming, but caseworking and similar. W

We've measured productivity of remote work compared to in house work. I work in the public sector so it's mainly not programming, but caseworking and similar. We've found that productivity is way down when people work at home, we've however also found that allowing people to slack once in a while increases their overall performance. The optimal results come from people working mainly at the office. Now this may be completely different for development houses, our coders are some of the most productive when working remote, IT in general is below average though.

8draco8 9y ago
Can you provide any studies on that?
DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
It's very cool that you guys actually gathered some data on the topic. I wonder how much your conclusions would hold for non-public-sector jobs. AFAIK it's typically harder to fire a public-sector worker for under-performance, than in the private sector. Perhaps that either (a) adds to the temptation to goof around at home, or (b) attracts the kinds of workers who were always more apt to goof around, given the opportunity.
- pc86 9y ago
  I do a lot of work with public-sector employees. I always thought they were lazy (which I think is a fairly common feeling throughout the private sector). Some are, of course. But unfortunately the problem is not one of drive but of competence. In technology specifically, the public-sector employees I've worked with simply do not have the skills of a private-sector employee with similar responsibilities/experience. I don't know if it's the lower salary or what but I can count on one hand the number of technical public-sector employees who would be able to have a similarly-titled position in any of the private sector companies I've worked for.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    Main problem is that all the high-quality tech talent is vacuumed up by the private sector. For what it's worth, I once worked at the Munich government and since a couple years in the private sector. In Munich, BMW, Microsoft and the various suppliers for BMW are the most likely target for fresh university graduates, mainly due to the prestige and in the case of BMW the enormous pay. Those who end up in public sector usually are those who value the job security or do it out of dedication. Which doesn't mean they're bad at their job, in my experience it was the exact opposite, but the government sector is waaaaay understaffed, and pay can't be risen to private-sector levels because of rigid union agreements. Also, the competence problems are related more to regulations... why spend your time e.g. learning Docker when you're happy enough you can finally use Ubuntu instead of RHEL? So basically unless you lesrn it in your time off there's no motivation to learn new stuff because it will be outdated when regulation molasses finally catches up.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
macobo 9y ago
Note that working remotely takes some getting used to just as with working at an office. Yes, you can dump someone into unfamiliar conditions and draw conclusions from that, but that's just confirming your prior assumptions without actually trying.
nobleach 9y ago
Our only measure of data is what we've used for testing our velocity. We've found that velocity increases when 2 or more are working from home on any given day. When I know a particular feature is going to require a lot of concentration, I don't think twice about popping into our #standup channel around 6am and saying: "wfh today". Now, when it comes to bugs, I'll admit, tossing it up on big screens and inviting a few co-workers is just awesome. It's like playing solitaire with someone watching... they always see things that you would not.
ChemicalWarfare 9y ago
Some jobs aren't totally "remote - compatible" no doubt. My take on this is people who actually "develop stuff" or to put it bluntly - get shit done - developers, architects, field consultants, release engineers, etc etc - are used to being judged by easily quantifiable metrics - repo commits, defects, system downtime etc etc - for these folks working from home is no different than going to the office with a couple of logistical adjustments.
- dfrey 9y ago
  Developer productivity is not easily quantifiable though...
  - ChemicalWarfare 9y ago
    If there's a baseline I don't see why it should be rocket science - person X's velocity when working from home is Y and when working from the office is Z. Compare Z and Y and there you have it. Sure, it's not apples-to-apples week-to-week/sprint-to-sprint but the averages are pretty consistent. If you don't have the baseline there are other ways of getting this figured out, not as accurate but good enough typically - instead of comparing someone's office vs. home velocity you go by the average velocity you're after and see if they can hang with that while working from home (and again, I don't see why this would be difficult to figure out).
mgkimsal 9y ago
Good that you measured. What sort of training/support did you put in place for people (management, caseworkers, etc) before trialing "work from home"?
tfandango 9y ago
In my experience, it depends on the person. Some people are more productive at home, others are distracted, end up playing video games and are never available online. Good mgmt would recognize this and enable employees to maximize their output.
- EpicEng 9y ago
  The problem is that a bad apple ruins it for everyone. Now managers have to deal with the constant complaints fo those who aren't as productive at home. "why is it ok for Bob to work from home twice a week, but not me?" Once that starts you either start aggressively firing (unlikely) or just take away work from home entirely. I imagine this problem only grows with the size of the group/company.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    This is precisely what top-level comment addressed by stating that 'a multi-billon dollar company' shouldn't be 'kindergarten'.
    - EpicEng 9y ago
      "shouldn't be", but is. Wishing something away doesn't actually make it go away. I'm a tech lead, not even a true manager, but I have to deal with kindergarten level emotional problems all of the time. So what do I do? Fire everyone? Don't think that's a practical solution. Try to hire people who are easier to work with? Sure, but good luck. Hard to determine that during the interview process. I don't think telling people to 'grow up' is a real solution here.
      - ntsplnkv2 9y ago
        No, ideally anyone with similar roles should be able to work from home. You also say to the complaining employee that you monitor all of your employees and ensure that they are being productive (any good manager should be doing this.) and that their productivity is none of their concern. Then you ask them if they are holding up the project, and how, and then you go from there. It's just poor management. Managers are mostly incompetent, or if they are, they are afraid of backlash and unable to lead.
benji-york 9y ago
From the few people I know in the public sector, "working from home" is code for "working as little as possible". I suspect organizational culture plays a large role.
gaius 9y ago
What is caseworking?

8draco8 9y ago

Can you provide any studies on that?

DoofusOfDeath 9y ago

It's very cool that you guys actually gathered some data on the topic. I wonder how much your conclusions would hold for non-public-sector jobs. AFAIK it's typically harder to fire a public-sector worker for under-performance, than in the private sector. Perhaps that either (a) adds to the temptation to goof around at home, or (b) attracts the kinds of workers who were always more apt to goof around, given the opportunity.

pc86 9y ago
I do a lot of work with public-sector employees. I always thought they were lazy (which I think is a fairly common feeling throughout the private sector). Some are, of course. But unfortunately the problem is not one of drive but of competence. In technology specifically, the public-sector employees I've worked with simply do not have the skills of a private-sector employee with similar responsibilities/experience. I don't know if it's the lower salary or what but I can count on one hand the number of technical public-sector employees who would be able to have a similarly-titled position in any of the private sector companies I've worked for.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  Main problem is that all the high-quality tech talent is vacuumed up by the private sector. For what it's worth, I once worked at the Munich government and since a couple years in the private sector. In Munich, BMW, Microsoft and the various suppliers for BMW are the most likely target for fresh university graduates, mainly due to the prestige and in the case of BMW the enormous pay. Those who end up in public sector usually are those who value the job security or do it out of dedication. Which doesn't mean they're bad at their job, in my experience it was the exact opposite, but the government sector is waaaaay understaffed, and pay can't be risen to private-sector levels because of rigid union agreements. Also, the competence problems are related more to regulations... why spend your time e.g. learning Docker when you're happy enough you can finally use Ubuntu instead of RHEL? So basically unless you lesrn it in your time off there's no motivation to learn new stuff because it will be outdated when regulation molasses finally catches up.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

macobo 9y ago

Note that working remotely takes some getting used to just as with working at an office. Yes, you can dump someone into unfamiliar conditions and draw conclusions from that, but that's just confirming your prior assumptions without actually trying.

nobleach 9y ago

Our only measure of data is what we've used for testing our velocity. We've found that velocity increases when 2 or more are working from home on any given day. When I know a particular feature is going to require a lot of concentration, I don't think twice about popping into our #standup channel around 6am and saying: "wfh today". Now, when it comes to bugs, I'll admit, tossing it up on big screens and inviting a few co-workers is just awesome. It's like playing solitaire with someone watching... they always see things that you would not.

ChemicalWarfare 9y ago

Some jobs aren't totally "remote - compatible" no doubt. My take on this is people who actually "develop stuff" or to put it bluntly - get shit done - developers, architects, field consultants, release engineers, etc etc - are used to being judged by easily quantifiable metrics - repo commits, defects, system downtime etc etc - for these folks working from home is no different than going to the office with a couple of logistical adjustments.

dfrey 9y ago
Developer productivity is not easily quantifiable though...
- ChemicalWarfare 9y ago
  If there's a baseline I don't see why it should be rocket science - person X's velocity when working from home is Y and when working from the office is Z. Compare Z and Y and there you have it. Sure, it's not apples-to-apples week-to-week/sprint-to-sprint but the averages are pretty consistent. If you don't have the baseline there are other ways of getting this figured out, not as accurate but good enough typically - instead of comparing someone's office vs. home velocity you go by the average velocity you're after and see if they can hang with that while working from home (and again, I don't see why this would be difficult to figure out).

mgkimsal 9y ago

Good that you measured. What sort of training/support did you put in place for people (management, caseworkers, etc) before trialing "work from home"?

tfandango 9y ago

In my experience, it depends on the person. Some people are more productive at home, others are distracted, end up playing video games and are never available online. Good mgmt would recognize this and enable employees to maximize their output.

EpicEng 9y ago
The problem is that a bad apple ruins it for everyone. Now managers have to deal with the constant complaints fo those who aren't as productive at home. "why is it ok for Bob to work from home twice a week, but not me?" Once that starts you either start aggressively firing (unlikely) or just take away work from home entirely. I imagine this problem only grows with the size of the group/company.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  This is precisely what top-level comment addressed by stating that 'a multi-billon dollar company' shouldn't be 'kindergarten'.
  - EpicEng 9y ago
    "shouldn't be", but is. Wishing something away doesn't actually make it go away. I'm a tech lead, not even a true manager, but I have to deal with kindergarten level emotional problems all of the time. So what do I do? Fire everyone? Don't think that's a practical solution. Try to hire people who are easier to work with? Sure, but good luck. Hard to determine that during the interview process. I don't think telling people to 'grow up' is a real solution here.
    - ntsplnkv2 9y ago
      No, ideally anyone with similar roles should be able to work from home. You also say to the complaining employee that you monitor all of your employees and ensure that they are being productive (any good manager should be doing this.) and that their productivity is none of their concern. Then you ask them if they are holding up the project, and how, and then you go from there. It's just poor management. Managers are mostly incompetent, or if they are, they are afraid of backlash and unable to lead.

benji-york 9y ago

From the few people I know in the public sector, "working from home" is code for "working as little as possible". I suspect organizational culture plays a large role.

gaius 9y ago

What is caseworking?