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We tried this in San Francisco and it gets dragged into some crazy anti-religious fight. It's about the rights of the baby, not about some religion's outdated b

We tried this in San Francisco and it gets dragged into some crazy anti-religious fight. It's about the rights of the baby, not about some religion's outdated beliefs. Children should be free of mutilation, regardless of their religion.

Boothroid 10y ago
Exactly. And last time I checked Jewish people have a place to live that is violently protective of their way of life, namely Israel.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Muslims also perform male circumcision it's called Khitan.
  - Boothroid 10y ago
    The article is about Jews/Israel: 'Regarding the Norwegian bill, Margolin said: “We will act in every way we can to fight this disgraceful bill... There is no doubt that this is an anti-Jewish decision that is blatantly antisemitic, because the bill does not harm Muslims who are not obligated to circumcise their children as infants and can perform the procedure even at an older ages as the bill allows.”'
- bluejekyll 10y ago
  Please don't make this about any specific religion's practices. That wasn't exactly my point. Only that the welfare of the child should trump religion. In the US there is also a practice that all? hospitals offer this practice as just an additional procedure after birth. This should be stopped, and that is non-religious, it's almost worse because it's nearly thoughtless.
  - Boothroid 10y ago
    Hang on a minute - the article is explicitly about Jews/Israel!!! 'Jewish leader urges Israel to exert political influence in fight for religious freedom in Europe.'
    - bluejekyll 10y ago
      Yes. I know the article is about that. I'm saying my comment, and I think the discussion should focus on the welfare of the child over the discussions of particular religions.
      - Boothroid 10y ago
        Ok I see. Well indeed, I don't understand why minority groups can use religion as a trump card over the right of a child to not suffer genital mutilation, and claim they should be able to continue to mutilate and that otherwise it's a form of discrimination :| Going back to my previous point, I'm saying that if it's so important to someone to be able to genitally mutilate their child, why choose to stay in a country that is apparently so hostile to your beliefs, when there is an alternative that is specifically designed to put your needs first?
wyager 10y ago
While I probably agree with your views on religious beliefs, if the goal is to get rid of these kinds of practices, off-handedly insulting people's beliefs probably won't convince them. It will just put them on the defensive. The best rhetorical approach here is probably to hammer home the fact that, by performing extensive and life-changing cosmetic surgery on a baby, you are violating their rights. This avoids impugning the parents' motives, which they are (for lack of a less abrasive word) aggressively programmed to defend.
sidlls 10y ago
Exactly. Religious belief isn't special, and it ought not entitle believers the right to mutilate the genitals of a child.

Boothroid 10y ago

Exactly. And last time I checked Jewish people have a place to live that is violently protective of their way of life, namely Israel.

dogma1138 10y ago
Muslims also perform male circumcision it's called Khitan.
- Boothroid 10y ago
  The article is about Jews/Israel: 'Regarding the Norwegian bill, Margolin said: “We will act in every way we can to fight this disgraceful bill... There is no doubt that this is an anti-Jewish decision that is blatantly antisemitic, because the bill does not harm Muslims who are not obligated to circumcise their children as infants and can perform the procedure even at an older ages as the bill allows.”'
bluejekyll 10y ago
Please don't make this about any specific religion's practices. That wasn't exactly my point. Only that the welfare of the child should trump religion. In the US there is also a practice that all? hospitals offer this practice as just an additional procedure after birth. This should be stopped, and that is non-religious, it's almost worse because it's nearly thoughtless.
- Boothroid 10y ago
  Hang on a minute - the article is explicitly about Jews/Israel!!! 'Jewish leader urges Israel to exert political influence in fight for religious freedom in Europe.'
  - bluejekyll 10y ago
    Yes. I know the article is about that. I'm saying my comment, and I think the discussion should focus on the welfare of the child over the discussions of particular religions.
    - Boothroid 10y ago
      Ok I see. Well indeed, I don't understand why minority groups can use religion as a trump card over the right of a child to not suffer genital mutilation, and claim they should be able to continue to mutilate and that otherwise it's a form of discrimination :| Going back to my previous point, I'm saying that if it's so important to someone to be able to genitally mutilate their child, why choose to stay in a country that is apparently so hostile to your beliefs, when there is an alternative that is specifically designed to put your needs first?

wyager 10y ago

While I probably agree with your views on religious beliefs, if the goal is to get rid of these kinds of practices, off-handedly insulting people's beliefs probably won't convince them. It will just put them on the defensive. The best rhetorical approach here is probably to hammer home the fact that, by performing extensive and life-changing cosmetic surgery on a baby, you are violating their rights. This avoids impugning the parents' motives, which they are (for lack of a less abrasive word) aggressively programmed to defend.

sidlls 10y ago

Exactly. Religious belief isn't special, and it ought not entitle believers the right to mutilate the genitals of a child.