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Profession: Firefighter - Full time <600 organization Workday (kind of, nothing is typical at the firehouse): - [06:00]: Wake up - get dressed covertly and sl

Profession: Firefighter - Full time <600 organization Workday (kind of, nothing is typical at the firehouse): - [06:00]: Wake up - get dressed covertly and slip out of the house - [06:30] Arrive at the station - Get coffee! Find my "relief" which is the similarly ranked person on the off going shift. - run 911 calls - [07:30] Have "line up"; Where we discuss what drills we have planned, eat some breakfast... drink more coffee. Talk about the previous day off. - run 911 calls - [08:30] Workout. Generally we have a mix of runners, lifters and crossfitters. Sometimes we will do the workout "on air" with our SCBA packs on... sometimes we need to just walk a few miles. Everyone on my shift likes to workout. - run 911 calls - [10:00] Shower and checkout equipment or drill. Send someone to the grocery store for the meals of the day. - run 911 calls - [11:00] Cook lunch, check email, and do any CE/Online training - run 911 calls - [12:00] eat lunch (between 12 and 2pm we typically get to eat... based on calls) , then pick up - [13:30] safety nap for the long night ahead - run 911 calls - [14:30] Afternoon coffee, plan drills for the next shift. Admin stuff. - run 911 calls - [15:00] Drill on some piece of equipment. Learn or relearn something. Generally Fire in the morning, EMS in the Afternoon. - [16:00] start preparing dinner - [17:00] Flag down and eat (depending on calls). We can watch TV or do personal stuff after this time. - run 911 calls for the night, try to sleep - [06:00] awake and get ready to go home.

david-gpu 9y ago
Most interesting. As a layperson I have trouble understanding what happens 17:00 to 06:00 the next day. What does it mean to "flag down" if you are still running 911 calls all night?
- fencepost 9y ago
  I believe that in the US many (most?) fire departments are 24 hours on/48 hours off so the overnight is sleep at the fire station or respond to calls if there are any. In this case I think "flag down" just means "no responsibilities other than responding to calls."
  - throwanem 9y ago
    It could also be a literal reference to taking down the United States flag. Those organizations of which I've been a member, which flew the US flag, would strike it at or just before sunset, and I believe Title 4 of the US Code, which details respectful treatment of the national flag, requires that this be done. ETA: Indeed, 4 USC 6(a) [1]: It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed 24 hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness. To the best of my understanding, no criminal penalty attaches to mishandling a flag in contravention of Title 4 requirements, despite the occasional misguided attempt to prosecute someone who, for example, incinerates a symbol of his nation in order to attempt some sort of point about the present conduct of its government. That said, it would surprise me to learn that anyone who flies the flag for patriotic reasons would disregard a legal recommendation regarding the proper manner of such display. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/6 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/6
    - Jeremy1026 9y ago
      There are six United States flags that are not required to follow this rule. Do you know which ones they are?
      - throwanem 9y ago
        The one in front of the White House is one of them, I believe, but then I also seem to recall that it's lit 24/7, so may not count. The other five I couldn't hazard a guess at.
        Jeremy1026 9y ago
        The six flags planted by the Apollo astronauts on the moon.
      - incredimike 9y ago
        NOT YET?
- behnamoh 9y ago
  It's good to see people from other professions such as yours on HN. I often get the feeling that HN commentators are mostly senior software developers, but people like you kinda balance the atmosphere here.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    (Vouched for civility and substance despite a recent ban. Please don't make me a fool to have done so.)
  - monkmartinez 9y ago
    Yeah, I do have two apps in the Play store and I love tinkering with Python... I have a dream that when I retire from the fire service, I will develop software for money or no money. It's a long shot... but I try to stay abreast.
- monkmartinez 9y ago
  Typically between 17:00 and 06:00 I am trying to learn something other than EMS and Fire... in between calls of course. Lots of my buddies watch sports and/or read during that time. If you are at a busy station that typically is the time you get the snot kicked out of you. That is, every time you put your head down the "tones" go off and you get back into the truck to handle a problem for the citizens of your community. Some problems are real, some are perceived, and most just need a firefighter/EMS person to tell them what they should do. Flag down was captured perfectly by @throwanem.
ryanx435 9y ago
I looked into becoming a volunteer firefighter after I got out of the Marines, but honestly the extremely long training required and the extremely high potential for PTSD from fire calls gone bad put me off from it.
- DanielBMarkham 9y ago
  When I got out of the Corps, I did some freelance writing here and there: local newspapers, regional/national magazines, etc. One of my first stories was with some local firefighters that responded to a car wreck. When they got there, there was a woman trapped in the wreck. Then it caught fire. There was nothing they could do but watch the woman burn to death. Decided then and there that firefighting wasn't in the cards for me.
  - rattray 9y ago
    What do you do now?
    - DanielBMarkham 9y ago
      Developer team training. Everything from coding to requirements. I was always good with computers. Even when I was writing, I ended up installing a computer network for the local newspaper. Eventually I just gave up and went into computers full-time.
- dba7dba 9y ago
  Los Angeles FD has firefighters earning regular pay AND extra pay for having PTSD if you were involved in a particularly bad fire. Not sure how much that extra pay is.
  - ryanx435 9y ago
    Seeing how much PTSD has affected some of my marine buddies, I do not believe that any amount of extra pay is worth the horror that it can cause
  - 9y ago
johnward 9y ago
I really liked 12 hour shifts when I was in tech support. Working 3 on and 3 off was amazing.
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  Same thing when I worked as a datacenter monkey as 4-10s. There's something extremely productive about having a day off in he middle of the week. It left my weekends totally open for "fun" because I wouldn't have any errands to run.
suls 9y ago
Thanks for your post. This is really cool. If you don't mind me asking: 1/ How many colleagues form a shift? 2/ How do you hand-over in case of a fire that spans across shift rotations? 3/ What happens if you need more help? Will it be the next shift's turn to help? 4/ "try to sleep" implies you have some flexibility within the shift itself? 5/ you do a lot if drills, training, learning .. is it also your job to think about improvements? Wondering how the feedback cycle works here ... Sorry for the long list! Just really curious.
- tgokh 9y ago
  Not the OP, but having worked on the EMS side of a fire department, I can give some insight (though my department was much smaller than OP's): 1) Usually each fire engine is staffed with 3-5 firefighters. A minimum of four is really idea, but due to staffing/budget issues, many departments only have 3 people on each engine. The crew on each engine is usually one chauffeur/engineer/driver (who drives the fire engine and operates the water pumps), one officer (in-charge of the crew), and one or more general firefighters. In most departments, each crew of 3-5 works for 24 hours and then has 48 hours off (or 24/72, or something similar), there are multiple groups of firefighters that all work on the same physical fire engine. Today, the "A shift" crew of Engine 1 might be staffing the fire engine numbered 1, but tomorrow, a different "B shift" crew will staff the same engine and operating under the name "Engine 1" On a somewhat related note, the organizational/command structure of the fire department depends largely on size. My department/county had several on-duty battalion chiefs who each oversaw a handful of engines/trucks. FDNY, on the other hand, has ~50 battalion chiefs, each overseeing ~6-10 fire crews, and has higher organization into ~10 divisions and 5 borough commands. 2) It depends on the type of fire/call. If it's an automatic fire alarm or medical call that comes in 20 minutes before shift change, the out-going crew is expected to run the call to completion. However, if there's a large fire/major incident, the command staff usually coordinates shuttling of crews on and off scene to maintain adequate staff on scene, but get tired crews home and fresh crews there. 3) For any large fire, multiple fire engines/trucks from our department will be dispatched. There are standard protocols that determine how many and what types of units are dispatched for each incident. If the needs of the call overwhelm our department, or if the incident is close to our jurisdictional line, the command staff on the scene can call for mutual aid for neighboring departments. Most fire departments have automatic aid agreements with neighboring cities/counties so that the dispatch centers can talk to each other send the needed units
raheemm 9y ago
Just curious. What makes you hangout at HN?
- interfixus 9y ago
  Just curious: What makes you ask?
  - joshbaptiste 9y ago
    Legitimate question as it was also quite surprising for me to see a firefighter respond to an ask HN. Though op does have apps in the app store and tinkers with Python so this is their hobby I take it.
    - interfixus 9y ago
      It's a weird idea that somehow only certain professions are deemed natural minglers in the HN crowd. I am a factory worker, truck driver, what have you - a real grunting morlock. Am I trespassing? Ought I confine my interest to topics not too far beyond my station, or what is it exactly you are implying here?
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        Chill :). I doubt 'raheemm and 'joshbaptiste meant anything negative in those questions. It's just that this site is dominated mostly by people in software engineering and related fields. It's interesting to know what makes people from other fields to come here and _stay here_, given that most topics are about software. To be clear: I appreciate all kinds of people from all fields being here; almost every week I learn something new and interesting from someone who's not in software.
      - sndean 9y ago
        There was an Ask HN a while ago that pretty much asked "Why are you here?" that received a lot of responses. IIRC, there was a fire lookout and some other interesting jobs that stood out... You're certainly not trespassing. To me, HN is just a better-moderated Reddit. Makes sense that it'd attract pretty much anyone (with a bias towards tech).
raamdev 9y ago
I've been a software engineer for the past 20 years but I'm really looking at changing things up and doing something totally different—I just can't stand spending so much time in front of a computer anymore (I find myself looking for excuses to do physical activity away from the screen). This sounds exactly like the sort of thing I'd enjoy, and I'd get to learn lots of useful skills and serve my local community at the same time. I'd be fine with taking a pay cut. Do you have any advice for someone wanting to become a firefighter? Or any resources that you can point me to?
- therealdrag0 9y ago
  Consider: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/02/24/467984297/episode-424-how-much-is-a-firefighter-worth http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/02/24/467984297/episo... There's a lot less fires than there used to be, might not be the best career to change into.
- monkmartinez 9y ago
  It is mostly EMS now... just fair warning. A lot of your options, like software engineering, depend on where you live and/or where you would like to re-locate. That is, lots of volunteer and professional options on the east coast... while mostly professional paid/career options on the west coast. I cannot speak to the volunteer tier of the fire service, I am simply ignorant to the demands of that side. I can speak to the west coast professional model. To be clear, there are lots of professional options on the east coast too. I just don't know them. In my humble opinion, this job is not for everyone. This job like any other has lots of cool shit and tons of horrible shit too. The ageism that may or may not exist in software is real in firefighting. Not due to politics or opinion or the SV stuff.... NO, It has do with the physical stress the body takes in this profession. It isn't commercial fishing, but sleep deprivation and picking up patients that weigh 500lbs, fighting brush fires all day, stress from seeing bad situations, etc. is real for most Fire/EMS folks today. The academies are tough and the competition to get in is really high. For each class in my department, there are generally about 3K applicants. We select 30 or 40 and of those 15-25% will wash out of the academy before it's over. If none of that makes you change your mind, go get EMT certified, Firefighter I and II certified, then take and pass the CPAT test... After that, start testing at every department that has open applications. You could probably script the app process :)

david-gpu 9y ago

Most interesting. As a layperson I have trouble understanding what happens 17:00 to 06:00 the next day. What does it mean to "flag down" if you are still running 911 calls all night?

fencepost 9y ago
I believe that in the US many (most?) fire departments are 24 hours on/48 hours off so the overnight is sleep at the fire station or respond to calls if there are any. In this case I think "flag down" just means "no responsibilities other than responding to calls."
- throwanem 9y ago
  It could also be a literal reference to taking down the United States flag. Those organizations of which I've been a member, which flew the US flag, would strike it at or just before sunset, and I believe Title 4 of the US Code, which details respectful treatment of the national flag, requires that this be done. ETA: Indeed, 4 USC 6(a) [1]: It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed 24 hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness. To the best of my understanding, no criminal penalty attaches to mishandling a flag in contravention of Title 4 requirements, despite the occasional misguided attempt to prosecute someone who, for example, incinerates a symbol of his nation in order to attempt some sort of point about the present conduct of its government. That said, it would surprise me to learn that anyone who flies the flag for patriotic reasons would disregard a legal recommendation regarding the proper manner of such display. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/6 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/6
  - Jeremy1026 9y ago
    There are six United States flags that are not required to follow this rule. Do you know which ones they are?
    - throwanem 9y ago
      The one in front of the White House is one of them, I believe, but then I also seem to recall that it's lit 24/7, so may not count. The other five I couldn't hazard a guess at.
      - Jeremy1026 9y ago
        The six flags planted by the Apollo astronauts on the moon.
    - incredimike 9y ago
      NOT YET?
behnamoh 9y ago
It's good to see people from other professions such as yours on HN. I often get the feeling that HN commentators are mostly senior software developers, but people like you kinda balance the atmosphere here.
- throwanem 9y ago
  (Vouched for civility and substance despite a recent ban. Please don't make me a fool to have done so.)
- monkmartinez 9y ago
  Yeah, I do have two apps in the Play store and I love tinkering with Python... I have a dream that when I retire from the fire service, I will develop software for money or no money. It's a long shot... but I try to stay abreast.
monkmartinez 9y ago
Typically between 17:00 and 06:00 I am trying to learn something other than EMS and Fire... in between calls of course. Lots of my buddies watch sports and/or read during that time. If you are at a busy station that typically is the time you get the snot kicked out of you. That is, every time you put your head down the "tones" go off and you get back into the truck to handle a problem for the citizens of your community. Some problems are real, some are perceived, and most just need a firefighter/EMS person to tell them what they should do. Flag down was captured perfectly by @throwanem.

ryanx435 9y ago

I looked into becoming a volunteer firefighter after I got out of the Marines, but honestly the extremely long training required and the extremely high potential for PTSD from fire calls gone bad put me off from it.

DanielBMarkham 9y ago
When I got out of the Corps, I did some freelance writing here and there: local newspapers, regional/national magazines, etc. One of my first stories was with some local firefighters that responded to a car wreck. When they got there, there was a woman trapped in the wreck. Then it caught fire. There was nothing they could do but watch the woman burn to death. Decided then and there that firefighting wasn't in the cards for me.
- rattray 9y ago
  What do you do now?
  - DanielBMarkham 9y ago
    Developer team training. Everything from coding to requirements. I was always good with computers. Even when I was writing, I ended up installing a computer network for the local newspaper. Eventually I just gave up and went into computers full-time.
dba7dba 9y ago
Los Angeles FD has firefighters earning regular pay AND extra pay for having PTSD if you were involved in a particularly bad fire. Not sure how much that extra pay is.
- ryanx435 9y ago
  Seeing how much PTSD has affected some of my marine buddies, I do not believe that any amount of extra pay is worth the horror that it can cause
- 9y ago

johnward 9y ago

I really liked 12 hour shifts when I was in tech support. Working 3 on and 3 off was amazing.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
Same thing when I worked as a datacenter monkey as 4-10s. There's something extremely productive about having a day off in he middle of the week. It left my weekends totally open for "fun" because I wouldn't have any errands to run.

suls 9y ago

Thanks for your post. This is really cool. If you don't mind me asking: 1/ How many colleagues form a shift? 2/ How do you hand-over in case of a fire that spans across shift rotations? 3/ What happens if you need more help? Will it be the next shift's turn to help? 4/ "try to sleep" implies you have some flexibility within the shift itself? 5/ you do a lot if drills, training, learning .. is it also your job to think about improvements? Wondering how the feedback cycle works here ... Sorry for the long list! Just really curious.

tgokh 9y ago
Not the OP, but having worked on the EMS side of a fire department, I can give some insight (though my department was much smaller than OP's): 1) Usually each fire engine is staffed with 3-5 firefighters. A minimum of four is really idea, but due to staffing/budget issues, many departments only have 3 people on each engine. The crew on each engine is usually one chauffeur/engineer/driver (who drives the fire engine and operates the water pumps), one officer (in-charge of the crew), and one or more general firefighters. In most departments, each crew of 3-5 works for 24 hours and then has 48 hours off (or 24/72, or something similar), there are multiple groups of firefighters that all work on the same physical fire engine. Today, the "A shift" crew of Engine 1 might be staffing the fire engine numbered 1, but tomorrow, a different "B shift" crew will staff the same engine and operating under the name "Engine 1" On a somewhat related note, the organizational/command structure of the fire department depends largely on size. My department/county had several on-duty battalion chiefs who each oversaw a handful of engines/trucks. FDNY, on the other hand, has ~50 battalion chiefs, each overseeing ~6-10 fire crews, and has higher organization into ~10 divisions and 5 borough commands. 2) It depends on the type of fire/call. If it's an automatic fire alarm or medical call that comes in 20 minutes before shift change, the out-going crew is expected to run the call to completion. However, if there's a large fire/major incident, the command staff usually coordinates shuttling of crews on and off scene to maintain adequate staff on scene, but get tired crews home and fresh crews there. 3) For any large fire, multiple fire engines/trucks from our department will be dispatched. There are standard protocols that determine how many and what types of units are dispatched for each incident. If the needs of the call overwhelm our department, or if the incident is close to our jurisdictional line, the command staff on the scene can call for mutual aid for neighboring departments. Most fire departments have automatic aid agreements with neighboring cities/counties so that the dispatch centers can talk to each other send the needed units

raheemm 9y ago

Just curious. What makes you hangout at HN?

interfixus 9y ago
Just curious: What makes you ask?
- joshbaptiste 9y ago
  Legitimate question as it was also quite surprising for me to see a firefighter respond to an ask HN. Though op does have apps in the app store and tinkers with Python so this is their hobby I take it.
  - interfixus 9y ago
    It's a weird idea that somehow only certain professions are deemed natural minglers in the HN crowd. I am a factory worker, truck driver, what have you - a real grunting morlock. Am I trespassing? Ought I confine my interest to topics not too far beyond my station, or what is it exactly you are implying here?
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      Chill :). I doubt 'raheemm and 'joshbaptiste meant anything negative in those questions. It's just that this site is dominated mostly by people in software engineering and related fields. It's interesting to know what makes people from other fields to come here and _stay here_, given that most topics are about software. To be clear: I appreciate all kinds of people from all fields being here; almost every week I learn something new and interesting from someone who's not in software.
    - sndean 9y ago
      There was an Ask HN a while ago that pretty much asked "Why are you here?" that received a lot of responses. IIRC, there was a fire lookout and some other interesting jobs that stood out... You're certainly not trespassing. To me, HN is just a better-moderated Reddit. Makes sense that it'd attract pretty much anyone (with a bias towards tech).

raamdev 9y ago

I've been a software engineer for the past 20 years but I'm really looking at changing things up and doing something totally different—I just can't stand spending so much time in front of a computer anymore (I find myself looking for excuses to do physical activity away from the screen). This sounds exactly like the sort of thing I'd enjoy, and I'd get to learn lots of useful skills and serve my local community at the same time. I'd be fine with taking a pay cut. Do you have any advice for someone wanting to become a firefighter? Or any resources that you can point me to?

therealdrag0 9y ago
Consider: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/02/24/467984297/episode-424-how-much-is-a-firefighter-worth http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/02/24/467984297/episo... There's a lot less fires than there used to be, might not be the best career to change into.
monkmartinez 9y ago
It is mostly EMS now... just fair warning. A lot of your options, like software engineering, depend on where you live and/or where you would like to re-locate. That is, lots of volunteer and professional options on the east coast... while mostly professional paid/career options on the west coast. I cannot speak to the volunteer tier of the fire service, I am simply ignorant to the demands of that side. I can speak to the west coast professional model. To be clear, there are lots of professional options on the east coast too. I just don't know them. In my humble opinion, this job is not for everyone. This job like any other has lots of cool shit and tons of horrible shit too. The ageism that may or may not exist in software is real in firefighting. Not due to politics or opinion or the SV stuff.... NO, It has do with the physical stress the body takes in this profession. It isn't commercial fishing, but sleep deprivation and picking up patients that weigh 500lbs, fighting brush fires all day, stress from seeing bad situations, etc. is real for most Fire/EMS folks today. The academies are tough and the competition to get in is really high. For each class in my department, there are generally about 3K applicants. We select 30 or 40 and of those 15-25% will wash out of the academy before it's over. If none of that makes you change your mind, go get EMT certified, Firefighter I and II certified, then take and pass the CPAT test... After that, start testing at every department that has open applications. You could probably script the app process :)