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Out of the five places I've worked, four had female assistants. I've interviewed at many more places with female secretaries. Rather than "Why are assistants c

Out of the five places I've worked, four had female assistants. I've interviewed at many more places with female secretaries. Rather than "Why are assistants conflated with women?" a more interesting question is "Why do assistants tend to be women?" (If my experience is average.) I don't really know the answer, but I hope it's not a controversial question, since I'm genuinely curious about the forces involved.

goseeastarwar 10y ago
You're concerned about controversy, because the origin is clearly sexist. Men running businesses wanted attractive women welcoming visitors (ie. other men) and helping them with tasks around the office. The continuing problem is this hasn't changed much at all in the last half century. For example, you will not find one unattractive receptionist at any VC office on Sand Hill Rd.
- duncan_bayne 10y ago
  > I understand that beauty is subjective It's not, really: displays of health, wealth, leisure are pretty much common. Youth and fertility for women. Status and wealth for men. Body symmetry. My layperson's understanding is that some of the specifics can be contextual to a particular time and culture, but the principles are universal, and so are a good number of the specifics.
  - goseeastarwar 10y ago
    I edited that line out, because it was superfluous. It's clear why these individuals were hired, in addition to being great at their job.
- peteretep 10y ago
  > Men running businesses wanted attractive > women Maybe, but it seems equally plausible to me that young (and old) women represented a large labour pool of sufficiently educated and equally intelligent workers who expected not to pursue a career (or had not been pursuing a career), were cut off from manual work, and in many cases wouldn't be averse to an environment where they might meet a young man with an office job. Secretarial and clerkship work was a primary male profession until mid 1900s.
ikeyany 10y ago
A mix of (1) women are more aesthetically pleasing, (2) women are socialized to fill the supporting role, and (3) systems are generally resistant to change, even over centuries. I don't think any of those observations are very controversial.
Swizec 10y ago
Behind every successful man is a spectacular woman making sure he doesn't fall on his face. Behind every successful woman is a man complaining that dinner is cold and making jokes with his mates about who wears the pants. I bet that has something to do with it.
- lacampbell 10y ago
  making jokes with his mates about who wears the pants Oh god those men terrify me. Often the same men who joke about doing unpaid overtime and not getting any raises. It's a constant reminder that you have to stand up for yourself in life, or no one will respect you.
rayiner 10y ago
> "Why do assistants tend to be women?" Lots of reasons, but a major one is that until relatively recently that's one of the jobs they were permitted to have: http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1011&context=facpub http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic.... In the legal world, for example, law firms openly rejected top applicants solely because they were women well into the 1970s. People tend to think of that time as ancient history, but it's not. C and UNIX were developed in the late 1960s and are still the bedrock of the Internet. Why should we expect social phenomena would move faster than computing technologies?
- SilasX 10y ago
  There was a Mad Men scene (S5E01 I think) where the firm advertises that they're equal opportunity, and when a bunch of black applicants queue up, the hiring manager says to them (paraphrasing), "Yes, you heard right, we're equal opportunity and do hire blacks. But our only openings are for secretaries, so the men can leave." That is, he's progressive enough to hire non-whites, but still doesn't think men can be secretaries. (In fairness, they probably wouldn't have wanted the role anyway.)

goseeastarwar 10y ago

You're concerned about controversy, because the origin is clearly sexist. Men running businesses wanted attractive women welcoming visitors (ie. other men) and helping them with tasks around the office. The continuing problem is this hasn't changed much at all in the last half century. For example, you will not find one unattractive receptionist at any VC office on Sand Hill Rd.

duncan_bayne 10y ago
> I understand that beauty is subjective It's not, really: displays of health, wealth, leisure are pretty much common. Youth and fertility for women. Status and wealth for men. Body symmetry. My layperson's understanding is that some of the specifics can be contextual to a particular time and culture, but the principles are universal, and so are a good number of the specifics.
- goseeastarwar 10y ago
  I edited that line out, because it was superfluous. It's clear why these individuals were hired, in addition to being great at their job.
peteretep 10y ago
> Men running businesses wanted attractive > women Maybe, but it seems equally plausible to me that young (and old) women represented a large labour pool of sufficiently educated and equally intelligent workers who expected not to pursue a career (or had not been pursuing a career), were cut off from manual work, and in many cases wouldn't be averse to an environment where they might meet a young man with an office job. Secretarial and clerkship work was a primary male profession until mid 1900s.

ikeyany 10y ago

A mix of (1) women are more aesthetically pleasing, (2) women are socialized to fill the supporting role, and (3) systems are generally resistant to change, even over centuries. I don't think any of those observations are very controversial.

Swizec 10y ago

Behind every successful man is a spectacular woman making sure he doesn't fall on his face. Behind every successful woman is a man complaining that dinner is cold and making jokes with his mates about who wears the pants. I bet that has something to do with it.

lacampbell 10y ago
making jokes with his mates about who wears the pants Oh god those men terrify me. Often the same men who joke about doing unpaid overtime and not getting any raises. It's a constant reminder that you have to stand up for yourself in life, or no one will respect you.

rayiner 10y ago

> "Why do assistants tend to be women?" Lots of reasons, but a major one is that until relatively recently that's one of the jobs they were permitted to have: http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1011&context=facpub http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic.... In the legal world, for example, law firms openly rejected top applicants solely because they were women well into the 1970s. People tend to think of that time as ancient history, but it's not. C and UNIX were developed in the late 1960s and are still the bedrock of the Internet. Why should we expect social phenomena would move faster than computing technologies?

SilasX 10y ago
There was a Mad Men scene (S5E01 I think) where the firm advertises that they're equal opportunity, and when a bunch of black applicants queue up, the hiring manager says to them (paraphrasing), "Yes, you heard right, we're equal opportunity and do hire blacks. But our only openings are for secretaries, so the men can leave." That is, he's progressive enough to hire non-whites, but still doesn't think men can be secretaries. (In fairness, they probably wouldn't have wanted the role anyway.)