5 ms·

No mention of GT5? It tells how impressive is this feature when few people remember a game that shipped 10+M units with it, does not it? I figure it could be mu

No mention of GT5? It tells how impressive is this feature when few people remember a game that shipped 10+M units with it, does not it? I figure it could be much more useful in AR applications than in games but, even there, it's a long shot (remember Amazon Fire Phone?).

modeless 10y ago
You're thinking of head tracking. Eye tracking is very different and neither GT5 nor the Fire Phone had it.
- pandaman 10y ago
  Fire Phone definitely had it (see https://www.wired.com/2014/06/amazon-fire-phone/ https://www.wired.com/2014/06/amazon-fire-phone/ for example), GT5 called the feature "Head Tracking" but, since it is played on a fixed display it was essentially tracking the direction of gaze in that setup, from the POV of gameplay I don't see much difference between that and true eye tracking.
  - dahauns 10y ago
    since it is played on a fixed display it was essentially tracking the direction of gaze in that setup, from the POV of gameplay I don't see much difference between that and true eye tracking. Absolutely not. Head and eye movements might complement each other, but they are completely different in execution. And you can't reliably track gaze from head movements alone. Focusing on distinct objects by looking at them, for example, is something you can only do with eye tracking (except for the most extremely coarse cases where there's only one object in the general direction of the head). BTW: Head tracking in games is nothing new, TrackIR e.g. has been around and a staple in sim racers for ~15 years now.
    - pandaman 10y ago
      In GT5, when you looked in the door mirror, the camera view shifted there. How could that be different with eye tracking?
      - dahauns 10y ago
        (except for the most extremely coarse cases where there's only one object in the general direction of the head)
        pandaman 10y ago
        Am I being too audacious when I interpret your quoting a part of your own previous message as your implying that: a) I did not read your previous message or did not understand it. b) The answer to my question is, indeed, positive as there is no difference but you don't want to admit that? Thanks in advance for a reply not consisting of quotes of your previous messages.
        dahauns 10y ago
        You are correct: I'm implying a), because the GT5 mirror look is exactly such an example.
  - modeless 10y ago
    Journalists, especially Wired journalists, are not a reliable source for a distinction like this. The Fire phone did not use eye tracking for its fancy 3D effects. It used head tracking. https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-phone/overview/getting-started-developing-apps-for-fire-phone https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-p... The eyes are the fastest moving part of the body, rotating at up to 900 degrees per second, and they are in constant motion anytime you're awake (and sometimes when you're asleep). Trying to approximate eye tracking with head tracking alone gives you such a poor estimate of what the eyes are doing that it's not really useful.
    - pandaman 10y ago
      Wired is not the only source, search google for "Fire Phone eye tracking". E.g. https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-fire-phone-features/ https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-fire-phone-features/ , C-Net is not good too? As for the Head Tracking SDK - sure, it's obviously is tracking the whole face position, it's easier than to track eyes so it's hard to imagine they would not have had it if they already had eye tracking.
      - modeless 10y ago
        Haha, no, CNET is not a reliable source for fine technical distinctions. Look, I linked directly to the Fire Phone SDK which clearly does not have eye tracking in it. I don't know what other kind of evidence you would accept.
        pandaman 10y ago
        Are you being serious? What kind of evidence is the lack of SDK? There are tons of gadgets without any SDK whatsoever in the open, do you accept this as evidence of the lack of features on these gadgets? Do you think Xbox One does not have a GPU because there is no open SDK for that? Do you think Tesla Model S does not have driving assists because there is no SDK? Amazon itself and all reviews lauded "eye scroll" and stupid paralax shit on Fire Phone. They wrote articles how much effort they've spent on eye tracking and how it's going to change the world. It happened in our reality. If you missed it, forgot it or are being in denial - read the internet, it still has traces left. Please don't come at me saying the major tech sites are delusional and you are not.

modeless 10y ago

You're thinking of head tracking. Eye tracking is very different and neither GT5 nor the Fire Phone had it.

pandaman 10y ago
Fire Phone definitely had it (see https://www.wired.com/2014/06/amazon-fire-phone/ https://www.wired.com/2014/06/amazon-fire-phone/ for example), GT5 called the feature "Head Tracking" but, since it is played on a fixed display it was essentially tracking the direction of gaze in that setup, from the POV of gameplay I don't see much difference between that and true eye tracking.
- dahauns 10y ago
  since it is played on a fixed display it was essentially tracking the direction of gaze in that setup, from the POV of gameplay I don't see much difference between that and true eye tracking. Absolutely not. Head and eye movements might complement each other, but they are completely different in execution. And you can't reliably track gaze from head movements alone. Focusing on distinct objects by looking at them, for example, is something you can only do with eye tracking (except for the most extremely coarse cases where there's only one object in the general direction of the head). BTW: Head tracking in games is nothing new, TrackIR e.g. has been around and a staple in sim racers for ~15 years now.
  - pandaman 10y ago
    In GT5, when you looked in the door mirror, the camera view shifted there. How could that be different with eye tracking?
    - dahauns 10y ago
      (except for the most extremely coarse cases where there's only one object in the general direction of the head)
      - pandaman 10y ago
        Am I being too audacious when I interpret your quoting a part of your own previous message as your implying that: a) I did not read your previous message or did not understand it. b) The answer to my question is, indeed, positive as there is no difference but you don't want to admit that? Thanks in advance for a reply not consisting of quotes of your previous messages.
        dahauns 10y ago
        You are correct: I'm implying a), because the GT5 mirror look is exactly such an example.
- modeless 10y ago
  Journalists, especially Wired journalists, are not a reliable source for a distinction like this. The Fire phone did not use eye tracking for its fancy 3D effects. It used head tracking. https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-phone/overview/getting-started-developing-apps-for-fire-phone https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/devices/fire-p... The eyes are the fastest moving part of the body, rotating at up to 900 degrees per second, and they are in constant motion anytime you're awake (and sometimes when you're asleep). Trying to approximate eye tracking with head tracking alone gives you such a poor estimate of what the eyes are doing that it's not really useful.
  - pandaman 10y ago
    Wired is not the only source, search google for "Fire Phone eye tracking". E.g. https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-fire-phone-features/ https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-fire-phone-features/ , C-Net is not good too? As for the Head Tracking SDK - sure, it's obviously is tracking the whole face position, it's easier than to track eyes so it's hard to imagine they would not have had it if they already had eye tracking.
    - modeless 10y ago
      Haha, no, CNET is not a reliable source for fine technical distinctions. Look, I linked directly to the Fire Phone SDK which clearly does not have eye tracking in it. I don't know what other kind of evidence you would accept.
      - pandaman 10y ago
        Are you being serious? What kind of evidence is the lack of SDK? There are tons of gadgets without any SDK whatsoever in the open, do you accept this as evidence of the lack of features on these gadgets? Do you think Xbox One does not have a GPU because there is no open SDK for that? Do you think Tesla Model S does not have driving assists because there is no SDK? Amazon itself and all reviews lauded "eye scroll" and stupid paralax shit on Fire Phone. They wrote articles how much effort they've spent on eye tracking and how it's going to change the world. It happened in our reality. If you missed it, forgot it or are being in denial - read the internet, it still has traces left. Please don't come at me saying the major tech sites are delusional and you are not.