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Ok how do we in the US promote globalism and cause us to join the EU with Canada, Mexico, and China (and anyone else that wants to join)? What? You thought we

Ok how do we in the US promote globalism and cause us to join the EU with Canada, Mexico, and China (and anyone else that wants to join)? What? You thought we globalist were going to stop at 50 states? There's no fundamental reason we can't get rid of borders and open the world up to free movement and trade. Countries that trade with each other don't go to war against each other.

gonvaled 9y ago
> There's no fundamental reason we can't get rid of borders and open the world up to free movement and trade. I would say those are the goals of any humanist. The EU is a step in that direction, unfortunately finding difficulties at the moment.
adrenalinelol 9y ago
There's also no reason you can't have borders indefinitely. Open borders have the draw backs of depressing wages. In an era where income-inequality is one of the top issues in the political debate, this is an area that's a non-starter until it can be done in a way that won't exacerbate said issue.
- mozumder 9y ago
  > Open borders have the benefit of increasing wages. Here, I fixed your mistaken statement for you. If you want to make money, you better make sure the people you are trading with are also rich. Open borders are a good way to do that.
  - RobertoG 9y ago
    Have you been around the last 40 years? Why do you think that everyday more people is against globalization and they are becoming more nationalist? something in the milk?
    - mozumder 9y ago
      > Have you been around the last 40 years? Yes I have. Third-world Asian countries have been doing great. > Why do you think that everyday more people is against globalization and they are becoming more nationalist? something in the milk? So you're saying the vast majority of the world, which are currently benefitting from massive incomes due to globalization, is against it? You should tell the billions of people across the developing world that. I'm sure the average Bangladeshi, who had their incomes go up by 5x over the last 20 years, is going to appreciate you telling them that globalization is a bad thing.
      - RobertoG 9y ago
        I'm not saying they shouldn't get improvements, quite the opposite, I'm saying that we should be able to do better and without reducing the quality of life in countries where capital formation is already developed. After all, Bangladesh it's [not so impressive](https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK:CHN&ifdim=region&tstart=831420000000&tend=1430949600000&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&m...) And I'm not sure neither about the [5x over thing](https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK:CHN&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&m...)
RobertoG 9y ago
"Countries that trade with each other don't go to war against each other." This is from 'Global Capitalism: Its Fall and Rise in the Twentieth Century' by Jeffry A. Frieden : 'In 1900 international trade reached unprecedented levels and the world's economies were more open to one another than ever before. Then as now, many people considered globalization to be inevitable and irreversible. Yet the entire edifice collapsed in a few months in 1914'. I recommend this book to however think, as I did before, that globalization is a new thing.
lossolo 9y ago
I don't know if you are joking but too much globalism got us here in the first place. You think from where China got all it's money and started being competition in global market to more tech advanced products? Globalism was a way for big corporations to make more profit thanks to cheap workforce and it was great, so much benefits for both sides until it wasn't. In USA-China trade there is a lot more money going out of USA, around ~400 billions (if I recall correctly) more going to China. You know what would happen if markets in EU would be flood by cheap african food and products without any regulation? When 500 million people from Africa would suddenly moved to EU? This would be great for Africa but disaster for EU. Sad truth is that we live in a world with limited wealth, if you want to give it to someone then you need to take it from someone else. You think that EU is giving billions of euro to Erdogan to keep immigrants out of EU because they want to get rid of the borders and welcome them in? We want to keep our way of live for us and for our children, we are selfish, we give sometimes some money to poor to satisfy our conscience. This is sad, unspoken and not politically correct truth. There needs to be balance in everything, in globalisation also. There is no one golden solution for everything but radicalism in either way is not good.

gonvaled 9y ago

> There's no fundamental reason we can't get rid of borders and open the world up to free movement and trade. I would say those are the goals of any humanist. The EU is a step in that direction, unfortunately finding difficulties at the moment.

adrenalinelol 9y ago

There's also no reason you can't have borders indefinitely. Open borders have the draw backs of depressing wages. In an era where income-inequality is one of the top issues in the political debate, this is an area that's a non-starter until it can be done in a way that won't exacerbate said issue.

mozumder 9y ago
> Open borders have the benefit of increasing wages. Here, I fixed your mistaken statement for you. If you want to make money, you better make sure the people you are trading with are also rich. Open borders are a good way to do that.
- RobertoG 9y ago
  Have you been around the last 40 years? Why do you think that everyday more people is against globalization and they are becoming more nationalist? something in the milk?
  - mozumder 9y ago
    > Have you been around the last 40 years? Yes I have. Third-world Asian countries have been doing great. > Why do you think that everyday more people is against globalization and they are becoming more nationalist? something in the milk? So you're saying the vast majority of the world, which are currently benefitting from massive incomes due to globalization, is against it? You should tell the billions of people across the developing world that. I'm sure the average Bangladeshi, who had their incomes go up by 5x over the last 20 years, is going to appreciate you telling them that globalization is a bad thing.
    - RobertoG 9y ago
      I'm not saying they shouldn't get improvements, quite the opposite, I'm saying that we should be able to do better and without reducing the quality of life in countries where capital formation is already developed. After all, Bangladesh it's [not so impressive](https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK:CHN&ifdim=region&tstart=831420000000&tend=1430949600000&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&m...) And I'm not sure neither about the [5x over thing](https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK:CHN&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false https://www.google.es/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&m...)

RobertoG 9y ago

"Countries that trade with each other don't go to war against each other." This is from 'Global Capitalism: Its Fall and Rise in the Twentieth Century' by Jeffry A. Frieden : 'In 1900 international trade reached unprecedented levels and the world's economies were more open to one another than ever before. Then as now, many people considered globalization to be inevitable and irreversible. Yet the entire edifice collapsed in a few months in 1914'. I recommend this book to however think, as I did before, that globalization is a new thing.

lossolo 9y ago

I don't know if you are joking but too much globalism got us here in the first place. You think from where China got all it's money and started being competition in global market to more tech advanced products? Globalism was a way for big corporations to make more profit thanks to cheap workforce and it was great, so much benefits for both sides until it wasn't. In USA-China trade there is a lot more money going out of USA, around ~400 billions (if I recall correctly) more going to China. You know what would happen if markets in EU would be flood by cheap african food and products without any regulation? When 500 million people from Africa would suddenly moved to EU? This would be great for Africa but disaster for EU. Sad truth is that we live in a world with limited wealth, if you want to give it to someone then you need to take it from someone else. You think that EU is giving billions of euro to Erdogan to keep immigrants out of EU because they want to get rid of the borders and welcome them in? We want to keep our way of live for us and for our children, we are selfish, we give sometimes some money to poor to satisfy our conscience. This is sad, unspoken and not politically correct truth. There needs to be balance in everything, in globalisation also. There is no one golden solution for everything but radicalism in either way is not good.