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You seem to assume that without the EU, european countries would no longer cooperate and trade with each other. I don't see that happening. The European Economi

You seem to assume that without the EU, european countries would no longer cooperate and trade with each other. I don't see that happening. The European Economic Area (EEA) and the Schengen treaty exist independently from the EU. Norway and Switzerland are not members of the EU, yet they trade perfectly fine with others. The EU is simply not necessary for free trade; nor is free trade its main goal. The EU as it is right now is becoming the next Sovient Union. A undemocratic, centralised, bureaucratic superstate that strips the people from their sovereignty, independence, cultural and ethnic traditions. What the EU is trying to do has been done in the past and it has failed.

mozumder 9y ago
Without the EU, they wouldn't have free labor mobility, limiting business hiring. If you want your business to succeed, you better have a free and open labor pool. This is why economies grow with open borders, because it's more labor efficient. Can you imagine not being able to hire a specialized SQL coder, because the only one available is in Austria, and you're business is in France, and there's no labor mobility? Or did you think labor was a commodity? And that anyone can do anyone else's job?
- polotics 9y ago
  Replace Austria with Australia in your post, and reconsider the truth value of your EU==Labor Mobility equation ok?
  - cthulha 9y ago
    Australian here: entry into EU area is a huge plus for jobs in Europe. Australian passports can use Schengen simplified entry and exit borders. We aren't part of EU, but the EU is a very appealing place to work.
- sparkling 9y ago
  > Can you imagine not being able to hire a specialized SQL coder, because the only one available is in Austria, and you're business is in France, and there's no labor mobility? In France, you can hire a SQL coder straight from Zimbabwe, South Korea, Venezuela or any other place on earth without a problem. The laws are in place and the EU has nothing to do with it.
  - szatkus 9y ago
    It's not a good example. Technical people are in demand basically everywhere. Think about manual labour.
    - user5994461 9y ago
      Technical people are really NOT in demand everywhere. There are only a few cities with a couple of jobs for them. The USA has stuff in SF/NY mostly. France has some stuff in Paris. That's about it.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    No, you need to get annoying VISA for them because they are not European. It's not that easy. We'll ignore for a minute that there is no shortage of SQL coder so it's really not warranted to recruiter from that far away. Unless it's a consulting company that tricks them to get minimum wage and resell them for more to make a profit. We'll also ignore that they don't speak French.
albertTJames 9y ago
The idea of an united europe has started from cooperation in trade with the founding of the ECSC in 1950's, thought by a handful of powerful politician and industry magnates, to solidify bonds between europeans countries and avoid any other wars. This was done without the people approving sentiment, which grew as the economic bonds were solidified. Both sentiment of cooperation and trade are essential to the construction of a european economic aera. Pro european laws and trade go hand in hand, you cannot have one without the other, and I believe they are the main driver of the european people's opinion above and beyond anything else - much like recent studies that showed that racism is driven first and foremost by discriminatory laws (which of course i can't find the reference right now.. if i do ill edit)

mozumder 9y ago

Without the EU, they wouldn't have free labor mobility, limiting business hiring. If you want your business to succeed, you better have a free and open labor pool. This is why economies grow with open borders, because it's more labor efficient. Can you imagine not being able to hire a specialized SQL coder, because the only one available is in Austria, and you're business is in France, and there's no labor mobility? Or did you think labor was a commodity? And that anyone can do anyone else's job?

polotics 9y ago
Replace Austria with Australia in your post, and reconsider the truth value of your EU==Labor Mobility equation ok?
- cthulha 9y ago
  Australian here: entry into EU area is a huge plus for jobs in Europe. Australian passports can use Schengen simplified entry and exit borders. We aren't part of EU, but the EU is a very appealing place to work.
sparkling 9y ago
> Can you imagine not being able to hire a specialized SQL coder, because the only one available is in Austria, and you're business is in France, and there's no labor mobility? In France, you can hire a SQL coder straight from Zimbabwe, South Korea, Venezuela or any other place on earth without a problem. The laws are in place and the EU has nothing to do with it.
- szatkus 9y ago
  It's not a good example. Technical people are in demand basically everywhere. Think about manual labour.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    Technical people are really NOT in demand everywhere. There are only a few cities with a couple of jobs for them. The USA has stuff in SF/NY mostly. France has some stuff in Paris. That's about it.
- user5994461 9y ago
  No, you need to get annoying VISA for them because they are not European. It's not that easy. We'll ignore for a minute that there is no shortage of SQL coder so it's really not warranted to recruiter from that far away. Unless it's a consulting company that tricks them to get minimum wage and resell them for more to make a profit. We'll also ignore that they don't speak French.

albertTJames 9y ago

The idea of an united europe has started from cooperation in trade with the founding of the ECSC in 1950's, thought by a handful of powerful politician and industry magnates, to solidify bonds between europeans countries and avoid any other wars. This was done without the people approving sentiment, which grew as the economic bonds were solidified. Both sentiment of cooperation and trade are essential to the construction of a european economic aera. Pro european laws and trade go hand in hand, you cannot have one without the other, and I believe they are the main driver of the european people's opinion above and beyond anything else - much like recent studies that showed that racism is driven first and foremost by discriminatory laws (which of course i can't find the reference right now.. if i do ill edit)