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Yeah and it backfired on them. Trump's victory was first and foremost a reaction to heavy-handed pushing of neo-liberal agenda (sorry for sounding super-breitba

Yeah and it backfired on them. Trump's victory was first and foremost a reaction to heavy-handed pushing of neo-liberal agenda (sorry for sounding super-breitbarty there). Basically, the Soros', Clintons, etc. of this world need to be a little more delicate, a little less arrogant and a little less compromised. Macron is idealogically == Clintons, but he will win (against a stronger candidate) b/c he doesn't have dirty laundry and (this is a guess, as I don't speak French), French mass media hasn't yet transformed into some sort of strange orwellian-buzzfeed hybrid.

pas 9y ago
That's the ultimate myth, that somehow "liberal" agenda was pushed too arrogantly, too hard. No, it's exactly the opposite of that, it's the case of the cornered boar. Millions of people decided they know better than facts. That's it. - bring back jobs (won't happen, because automation and simply too high cost of living in USA) - climate change is a Chinese hoax (coal ash is killing folks in the USA, and they have the largest healthcare-financing problem) - illegal immigrants, Mexico wall (ineffective and immigrants are net payers, since they pay taxes, but don't receive any support) - sex ed, planned parenthood, contraceptions (again, costs of teen pregnancies are hurting them the most)
- Profragile 9y ago
  >bring back jobs Jobs don't have to be the same kind as before. If newer businesses flourish, new types of jobs will be created. Automation will lower prices of certain things and additional value can be created on top of it. Jobs can never die unless culled by government regulations. >climate change is a Chinese hoax It wouldn't be a big surprise if it was. The west has imposed environmental regulations which has forced manufacturing firms to move out to countries which haven't caught up. So, now the same products are taxing to the environment because they cause just as much harm to the environment because China uses the same processes... and to add to that fuel used in shipping causes extra harm and china has benefitted immensely. >illegal immigrants, Mexico wall No, you cannot correctly calculate if illegal immigrants are net benefit because there is no correct data. Estimates can be made either way. It doesn't prove anything. Regardless, that's not the issue. Not imprisoning a mass murderers might be beneficial to the economy, however, it doesn't mean that they should be set free. If immigrants are good for the economy, why not make legal immigration easier? If it's because they would have to be paid minimum wage, why not lower minimum wage? Why insist on keeping them illegal? Liberals talk about how the other side is brainwashed... but I can't see how someone who is capable of thinking can support illegal immigration. > sex ed, planned parenthood, contraceptions (again, costs of teen pregnancies are hurting them the most) Overall fertility rates have been declining in the developed world... which is a huge problem. Teen pregnancies are more of a solution than a problem. Human populations are capable of self regulation to a very high degree. Besides, nobody is for banning contraception... the argument is that one should buy their own.
  - pas 9y ago
    The current economics model for automation is Skill-biased technological change. That means that new technology is not a universal production multiplier, it needs people who can wield it, they need to have certain skills. But those who have will be a lot more productive than those who are without this combination of skill and technology. Hence the enormous demand for high-skilled workers. Which means slowly disappearing demand for unskilled workers. No, it doesn't necessarily mean the total number of jobs is shrinking, but people need to possess more and more complex skills. (And of course there's the problem of rising income inequality, capital and wealth concentration, and so on.) > climate Manufacturing moved because wages, not because environmental regulations. And of course China has benefitted. The US was too generous, reciprocity was missing in capital transfer options. > ... I support an open borders policy. Especially in case of the US, where being a resident doesn't give you any support automatically (as opposed to let's say Nordic countries). I don't "support" illegal immigration. I support helping people getting out of illegality. I respect the need for security, and I want others to respect my need for real security, not security theater. > ... Teen pregnancies are not a solution. It's a spiral of poverty and misery. And yes, there are multiple groups, millions of people for banning contraception. Making it impossible to buy.
- deleted 9y ago
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- gaius 9y ago
  bring back jobs (won't happen, because automation and simply too high cost of living in USA) US/Mexico trade balance pre/post NAFTA? If you go by the numbers alone, it's pretty clear-cut. Unless you know better than the facts of course...
  - pas 9y ago
    Trade balance alone is meaningless. The US is a much wealthier country/nation/state than Mexico, of course if barriers to trade are lowered people will import more from the cheaper side. This helps Mexico's developing economy.
    - gaius 9y ago
      Helping a developing economy is a laudable goal sure, the political question is whether it is enough to be worth inflicting costs on your own voters. Some of said voters will say yes of course, generally those will be the ones benefiting from cheaper products/labour, and not those who have been undercut.
- gribbly 9y ago
  >Millions of people decided they know better than facts. That's it. I don't think people voted for Trump because they think he was spouting facts (when did facts ever factor in a US election ?). I think they voted for him because they felt that between him and Hillary it was a bad choice either way, so why not go with the 'new kid on the block' this time around.
- deleted 9y ago
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pas 9y ago

That's the ultimate myth, that somehow "liberal" agenda was pushed too arrogantly, too hard. No, it's exactly the opposite of that, it's the case of the cornered boar. Millions of people decided they know better than facts. That's it. - bring back jobs (won't happen, because automation and simply too high cost of living in USA) - climate change is a Chinese hoax (coal ash is killing folks in the USA, and they have the largest healthcare-financing problem) - illegal immigrants, Mexico wall (ineffective and immigrants are net payers, since they pay taxes, but don't receive any support) - sex ed, planned parenthood, contraceptions (again, costs of teen pregnancies are hurting them the most)

Profragile 9y ago
>bring back jobs Jobs don't have to be the same kind as before. If newer businesses flourish, new types of jobs will be created. Automation will lower prices of certain things and additional value can be created on top of it. Jobs can never die unless culled by government regulations. >climate change is a Chinese hoax It wouldn't be a big surprise if it was. The west has imposed environmental regulations which has forced manufacturing firms to move out to countries which haven't caught up. So, now the same products are taxing to the environment because they cause just as much harm to the environment because China uses the same processes... and to add to that fuel used in shipping causes extra harm and china has benefitted immensely. >illegal immigrants, Mexico wall No, you cannot correctly calculate if illegal immigrants are net benefit because there is no correct data. Estimates can be made either way. It doesn't prove anything. Regardless, that's not the issue. Not imprisoning a mass murderers might be beneficial to the economy, however, it doesn't mean that they should be set free. If immigrants are good for the economy, why not make legal immigration easier? If it's because they would have to be paid minimum wage, why not lower minimum wage? Why insist on keeping them illegal? Liberals talk about how the other side is brainwashed... but I can't see how someone who is capable of thinking can support illegal immigration. > sex ed, planned parenthood, contraceptions (again, costs of teen pregnancies are hurting them the most) Overall fertility rates have been declining in the developed world... which is a huge problem. Teen pregnancies are more of a solution than a problem. Human populations are capable of self regulation to a very high degree. Besides, nobody is for banning contraception... the argument is that one should buy their own.
- pas 9y ago
  The current economics model for automation is Skill-biased technological change. That means that new technology is not a universal production multiplier, it needs people who can wield it, they need to have certain skills. But those who have will be a lot more productive than those who are without this combination of skill and technology. Hence the enormous demand for high-skilled workers. Which means slowly disappearing demand for unskilled workers. No, it doesn't necessarily mean the total number of jobs is shrinking, but people need to possess more and more complex skills. (And of course there's the problem of rising income inequality, capital and wealth concentration, and so on.) > climate Manufacturing moved because wages, not because environmental regulations. And of course China has benefitted. The US was too generous, reciprocity was missing in capital transfer options. > ... I support an open borders policy. Especially in case of the US, where being a resident doesn't give you any support automatically (as opposed to let's say Nordic countries). I don't "support" illegal immigration. I support helping people getting out of illegality. I respect the need for security, and I want others to respect my need for real security, not security theater. > ... Teen pregnancies are not a solution. It's a spiral of poverty and misery. And yes, there are multiple groups, millions of people for banning contraception. Making it impossible to buy.
deleted 9y ago
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deleted 9y ago
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gaius 9y ago
bring back jobs (won't happen, because automation and simply too high cost of living in USA) US/Mexico trade balance pre/post NAFTA? If you go by the numbers alone, it's pretty clear-cut. Unless you know better than the facts of course...
- pas 9y ago
  Trade balance alone is meaningless. The US is a much wealthier country/nation/state than Mexico, of course if barriers to trade are lowered people will import more from the cheaper side. This helps Mexico's developing economy.
  - gaius 9y ago
    Helping a developing economy is a laudable goal sure, the political question is whether it is enough to be worth inflicting costs on your own voters. Some of said voters will say yes of course, generally those will be the ones benefiting from cheaper products/labour, and not those who have been undercut.
gribbly 9y ago
>Millions of people decided they know better than facts. That's it. I don't think people voted for Trump because they think he was spouting facts (when did facts ever factor in a US election ?). I think they voted for him because they felt that between him and Hillary it was a bad choice either way, so why not go with the 'new kid on the block' this time around.
deleted 9y ago
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