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Does any of this matter when, people just don't care? In 2016 VW sold more cars than any of the years before, and surpassed Toyota as the world's largest automa

Does any of this matter when, people just don't care? In 2016 VW sold more cars than any of the years before, and surpassed Toyota as the world's largest automaker [1]. I understand that regulators could issue sale bans or fines or what not -- but these will be set in a small subset of countries only, and even there: "(VW) ...had continued to sell cars with illegal software, including 2015 models." [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/01/30/volkswagen-toyota-world-largest-automaker/97234320/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/01/30/volkswa...

supercoder 9y ago
Yep, I absolutely don't care. Just give me a nice car at a good price.
p49k 9y ago
VW has already spent 22 billion dollars on this mess, which is more than it would have cost to just build the cars with proper emissions equipment, which means they're likely to learn from the mistake. As long as I believe that the government will force a buyback or allow me to obtain fair compensation for this type of wrongdoing, then I'm less concerned about it.
jest3r1 9y ago
I care. My first car was a 1989 VW Golf GTI. Loved it. Second car was a Golf GL. Third car was a Jetta TDI. Ran all these cars close to 400K KM. Always loved the fact that VWs are built to last. Relatively cheap to maintain, and just the usual minor VW issues like leaky doors, seized door handles, rust spotting, but never any major drivetrain problems. It was time for a new car this year, and I ended up purchasing a brand new Honda. I love it. It will take some time for VW to earn back my trust, and I hope I'm not the only loyal customer that has expressed dissatisfaction by purchasing a competing brand. There's no reason why I shouldn't have been a VW customer for life.
- zero_intp 9y ago
  Another anecdote to share, I have purchased three new VW: a Golf 1.8t, a 2.0t GTI (for the mr), and a TDI (for the mrs). We will not be purchasing a new VW when we cash in the TDI. I will not be purchasing a new VW when the GTI dies.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- forinti 9y ago
  I deduce that you don't live in Brazil, where they definitely do not offer the same quality they do in Europe. In fact, they continued offering the T1 here, while they were selling the T5 in Europe. They big 4 (Fiat, VW, Ford, and GM) spent decades selling trash in Brazil, because they had no competition.
  - toast0 9y ago
    If all of the big 4 are selling trash in Brazil, lack of competition isn't the problem. If the old models are still legal to sell, they're likely cheaper to make, and have better parts availability than a new model (because of so many of the old model already in the country)
- altstar 9y ago
  Looks like Honda is not that great either: https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/2016_09_Dieselgate_report_who_what_how_FINAL_0.pdf https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/2016_09_...
tajen 9y ago
I even tried coining the term "volkswagening" (v. t.to both bypass a law and deceive the inspection) in forums, at work or on 9Gag (no shame - any media is a media), hoping to make the shame last a little longer, but it didn't pick up.
- specialist 9y ago
  Maybe try some wordplay/agitprop with "fahrvergnügen". If I come up with a good zinger, I'll let you know.
762236 9y ago
I had one of the VW diesels with the cheat. VW bought it back from me, and I bought another VW station wagon. To avoid VW, I would have had to purchase an SUV or CUV. VW is the only company selling a reasonably priced station wagon in the U.S.
- vldx 9y ago
  Eh? I'm owner (EU) of 2012' Golf TDI, which has the defeat device. I was offered €50 voucher for accepting the stage 1 "fix" VW started implementing.
- pythonistic 9y ago
  My Subaru Outback is technically a station wagon, even if it resembles a SUV. The significant differences are fuel economy (+3 MPG for the Outback), headroom (+0.6" for the Forester), cargo capacity (+1.4 cubic feet for the Forester), and size (+1.7" width/+8" length for the Outback). Surprisingly, the Outback can also tow a heavier trailer (2700 lbs).
thinkling 9y ago
I agree that it's disappointing to see people continue to buy VW-Audi cars. If it hadn't been for the scandal, I would have bought an Audi A3 TDI or eTron, but I'm not givtthem business now. Similarly, though, people generally continue to buy cars with terrible gas mileage by the millions when we know we need to start making better choices.
kbos87 9y ago
I too recently bought a different brand. Loved everything about my Jetta while I owned it, but I just couldn't feel good about the brand anymore.
bigbugbag 9y ago
US people may not care (though I'm not convinced yet), but in Europe the sale of diesel car is falling both new and second hand, even in Germany, home country of VW, it's reported to be down by 19%.

supercoder 9y ago

Yep, I absolutely don't care. Just give me a nice car at a good price.

p49k 9y ago

VW has already spent 22 billion dollars on this mess, which is more than it would have cost to just build the cars with proper emissions equipment, which means they're likely to learn from the mistake. As long as I believe that the government will force a buyback or allow me to obtain fair compensation for this type of wrongdoing, then I'm less concerned about it.

jest3r1 9y ago

I care. My first car was a 1989 VW Golf GTI. Loved it. Second car was a Golf GL. Third car was a Jetta TDI. Ran all these cars close to 400K KM. Always loved the fact that VWs are built to last. Relatively cheap to maintain, and just the usual minor VW issues like leaky doors, seized door handles, rust spotting, but never any major drivetrain problems. It was time for a new car this year, and I ended up purchasing a brand new Honda. I love it. It will take some time for VW to earn back my trust, and I hope I'm not the only loyal customer that has expressed dissatisfaction by purchasing a competing brand. There's no reason why I shouldn't have been a VW customer for life.

zero_intp 9y ago
Another anecdote to share, I have purchased three new VW: a Golf 1.8t, a 2.0t GTI (for the mr), and a TDI (for the mrs). We will not be purchasing a new VW when we cash in the TDI. I will not be purchasing a new VW when the GTI dies.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
forinti 9y ago
I deduce that you don't live in Brazil, where they definitely do not offer the same quality they do in Europe. In fact, they continued offering the T1 here, while they were selling the T5 in Europe. They big 4 (Fiat, VW, Ford, and GM) spent decades selling trash in Brazil, because they had no competition.
- toast0 9y ago
  If all of the big 4 are selling trash in Brazil, lack of competition isn't the problem. If the old models are still legal to sell, they're likely cheaper to make, and have better parts availability than a new model (because of so many of the old model already in the country)
altstar 9y ago
Looks like Honda is not that great either: https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/2016_09_Dieselgate_report_who_what_how_FINAL_0.pdf https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/2016_09_...

tajen 9y ago

I even tried coining the term "volkswagening" (v. t.to both bypass a law and deceive the inspection) in forums, at work or on 9Gag (no shame - any media is a media), hoping to make the shame last a little longer, but it didn't pick up.

specialist 9y ago
Maybe try some wordplay/agitprop with "fahrvergnügen". If I come up with a good zinger, I'll let you know.

762236 9y ago

I had one of the VW diesels with the cheat. VW bought it back from me, and I bought another VW station wagon. To avoid VW, I would have had to purchase an SUV or CUV. VW is the only company selling a reasonably priced station wagon in the U.S.

vldx 9y ago
Eh? I'm owner (EU) of 2012' Golf TDI, which has the defeat device. I was offered €50 voucher for accepting the stage 1 "fix" VW started implementing.
pythonistic 9y ago
My Subaru Outback is technically a station wagon, even if it resembles a SUV. The significant differences are fuel economy (+3 MPG for the Outback), headroom (+0.6" for the Forester), cargo capacity (+1.4 cubic feet for the Forester), and size (+1.7" width/+8" length for the Outback). Surprisingly, the Outback can also tow a heavier trailer (2700 lbs).

thinkling 9y ago

I agree that it's disappointing to see people continue to buy VW-Audi cars. If it hadn't been for the scandal, I would have bought an Audi A3 TDI or eTron, but I'm not givtthem business now. Similarly, though, people generally continue to buy cars with terrible gas mileage by the millions when we know we need to start making better choices.

kbos87 9y ago

I too recently bought a different brand. Loved everything about my Jetta while I owned it, but I just couldn't feel good about the brand anymore.

bigbugbag 9y ago

US people may not care (though I'm not convinced yet), but in Europe the sale of diesel car is falling both new and second hand, even in Germany, home country of VW, it's reported to be down by 19%.