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>BigCo's like Apple or Samsung are probably ARM partners, so no per-design/unit fees. Nope, all ARM licensees pay a per-unit royalty, regardless of their partn

by desdiv 9y ago

>BigCo's like Apple or Samsung are probably ARM partners, so no per-design/unit fees. Nope, all ARM licensees pay a per-unit royalty, regardless of their partnership level[0]. Being the biggest might help Apple and Samsung negotiate a slightly lower royalty rate, but by the end of the day it's still at least 1% of the chip's selling price. [0] http://www.anandtech.com/show/7112/the-arm-diaries-part-1-how-arms-business-model-works/2 http://www.anandtech.com/show/7112/the-arm-diaries-part-1-ho...

kogepathic 9y ago
> but by the end of the day it's still at least 1% of the chip's selling price. Right, but you cannot just consider the difference in royalty fees between ARM and another ISA. For example, the STM32F* chips cost between $0.60 (STM32F0) [0] and $19 (STM32F7) [1]. You can't just compare the royalty fee here when thinking of lost revenue for the manufacturer. The ARM ecosystem is huge, and if ST switched to another ISA, they would probably lose customers unless the new ISA had an ecosystem that was as good or better than ARM. Yes, the royalty amount matters, but customer preferences also matter. I doubt any high volume ST customer would be willing to switch to an entirely new ISA without the kind of ecosystem that ARM has for a few pennies per chip. And who is going to pay for the development of the tools? Unless it's someone like RISC-V, then they're probably stuck developing it themselves. Kiss goodbye to all the money you "saved" by not paying ARM royalties. Furthermore, if ST switched to a different ISA to save the ARM royalty, what makes you think they would pass along that savings to the customer? [0] https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microcontrollers/685?FV=ffe002ad&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=0&pbfree=0&rohs=0&k=STM32F0&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/... [1] https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microcontrollers/685?FV=ffe002ad&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=-1000011&page=1&stock=0&pbfree=0&rohs=0&k=STM32F7&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/...
- indolering 9y ago
  Bluespec, AMD, Qualcomm, IBM, NVidia, Micron, NXP, Samsung and a few dozen other companies are all dues paying members of the RISC-V foundation. I think it's possible for them to create a new ecosystem, just give them time.

by desdiv 9y ago

kogepathic 9y ago

> but by the end of the day it's still at least 1% of the chip's selling price. Right, but you cannot just consider the difference in royalty fees between ARM and another ISA. For example, the STM32F* chips cost between $0.60 (STM32F0) [0] and $19 (STM32F7) [1]. You can't just compare the royalty fee here when thinking of lost revenue for the manufacturer. The ARM ecosystem is huge, and if ST switched to another ISA, they would probably lose customers unless the new ISA had an ecosystem that was as good or better than ARM. Yes, the royalty amount matters, but customer preferences also matter. I doubt any high volume ST customer would be willing to switch to an entirely new ISA without the kind of ecosystem that ARM has for a few pennies per chip. And who is going to pay for the development of the tools? Unless it's someone like RISC-V, then they're probably stuck developing it themselves. Kiss goodbye to all the money you "saved" by not paying ARM royalties. Furthermore, if ST switched to a different ISA to save the ARM royalty, what makes you think they would pass along that savings to the customer? [0] https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microcontrollers/685?FV=ffe002ad&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=0&pbfree=0&rohs=0&k=STM32F0&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/... [1] https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-microcontrollers/685?FV=ffe002ad&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=-1000011&page=1&stock=0&pbfree=0&rohs=0&k=STM32F7&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/...

indolering 9y ago
Bluespec, AMD, Qualcomm, IBM, NVidia, Micron, NXP, Samsung and a few dozen other companies are all dues paying members of the RISC-V foundation. I think it's possible for them to create a new ecosystem, just give them time.