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Show HN: Dazzle – Mobile web browser designed from first principles

57 points by spolu 9y ago

spolu 9y ago
Hi HN! I built dazzle with Antoine out of the frustration of having to use tabs on mobile. We wanted to explore a shared history/tabs mechanism that we expected to be particularly adapted to mobile usage. After a few months of dog fooding we felt like it was time to share it publicly even if it's still a bit rough on the edges (and very experimental really). Hope you have fun trying it, feedback welcome and encouraged.
- lefstathiou 9y ago
  Nice work on this. I actually like the simplicity of it. Feels light weight and fast. We live in an era of distrust so without seeing your terms / privacy policy I was not comfortable logging into a site with a password so may be worth adding a blurb about that. On the bottom where you display the URL, I value seeing HTTPS where applicable as well. I don't want to feel like I am losing security by using this. Last thought, it would be nice to customize the homepage away from google. This one is just vanity though. Good work and good luck.
  - spolu 9y ago
    Hi! That's fair. Pending terms of services; you have access to the source code here: https://github.com/spolu/dazzle https://github.com/spolu/dazzle Of course; this is all very experimental for now. PS: that's the whole point of a Show HN :-)
    - spolu 9y ago
      Also there is no server. We don't store any data outside the app / your phone.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
michaelmior 9y ago
What are the "first principles" you based the design on?
- spolu 9y ago
  Mostly a shared tab/history system that feel much more adapted to mobile. To a certain degree, access to everything without changing hand or an additional hand. Under the hood there's only one WKWebview and that makes it feel surprinsingly I have to admit slightly faster.
  - echan00 9y ago
    So is the main value prop a browser that can be controlled with one hand? I don't want to sound like a hater, but don't call it "designed from first principles" if it really isn't that.
    - spolu 9y ago
      What about the shared tab/history concept?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - dorian-graph 9y ago
    Where did these first principles come from?
- echan00 9y ago
  thank you, that was my first question too.
afro88 9y ago
Wow, this is done in React Native: https://github.com/spolu/dazzle https://github.com/spolu/dazzle
- qmarchi 9y ago
  How hard would it be to compile a version for Android?
  - spolu 9y ago
    It's a bit optimized for WKWebView for now... but not impossible to support android with a bit of work
deanclatworthy 9y ago
As a product page visitor using mobile your page is useless to me. No screenshots, no intro video. I'm not going to make a commitment to using something without either of those two.
- zghst 9y ago
  For me it's something that actually stood out. Just the features.
snissn 9y ago
What security promises can you make? How do I know that you're not hijacking my cookies and passwords? I atleast trust apple and Google with my data before even opening their browsers
- spolu 9y ago
  Completely understandable. There is no server, we don't store any data outside the app and the source code is available here https://github.com/spolu/dazzle https://github.com/spolu/dazzle But of course this is Show HN material so still totally experimental.
  - hRrrm1 9y ago
    From the code it seems like pages can navigate to `file://` URLs? I don't have a bin handy or I would check myself.
cupcakestand 9y ago
Tried Dazzle few times this afternoon and this browser is just brilliant. Why: Currently, user interaction with tabs on mobile browsers is totally broken and super cumbersome. Dazzle is merging browsing history with tabs which is smart and leads to a super smooth user experience. Actually, there are no tabs anymore, just the browser history which pops ups every time you touch the address bar at the bottom. Simple but nice solution. Moreover, it offers a bigger viewport than Safari does (no iOS navigation bar at the bottom und a black slick and super slim address bar). Finally, I like the slightly rounded corners of the viewport. All small and subtle stuff but shows that the creator cares about a polished appearance. But I am not sure about the landing page and this 'first principle' thing. People don't get it and it sounds super awkward. Really remake the landing page, make it slicker, put some screenshots there, remove the first principle blabla, find a punchy headline and remake all the copy. You should definitely keep on working on this and not let yourself getting discouraged. The product and the minimalistic approach you chose is excellent, the Marekting/branding not so.
- spolu 9y ago
  Thanks! That's exactly what excites us as well and motivated us to work on this. What message would you use on the landing page?
  - cupcakestand 9y ago
    > What message would you use on the landing page? Good question and not sure myself. You could make it straight and simple and put the focus on the missing tabs. Then, your header would be something like 'The No-tabs Browser'. This might be again too simple and you could get a bit more abstract and stress your minimalstic approach ('The Less-is-More Browser'). However, I'd tend to be to the point and build a story around the main feauture. Or you find a new hook in the communication, e.g. privacy. Then, your UI is kind of nice side-benefit and the DNA. How many are you and where are you from?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- 9y ago
fulafel 9y ago
What does first principle mean here? Is it a from-scratch engine or is it a redesign of the chrome, or both?
w33ble 9y ago
Nice job! Of all the third party browsers I've tried on iOS, this is the only one that feels as nice as mobile Safari, and the only one I'd consider using full time. Do you have any plans to implement bookmarks, or any way to "pin" items in the history? I use the mobile Safari favorites all the time for quick access to 4 or 5 sites. Seems like the one thing missing from Dazzle.
- llorca 9y ago
  Thank you! Spot on, we'd like to add a pinning functionality in the future, to keep track of to-dos for instance. We haven't gotten to it just yet.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
fiatjaf 9y ago
It isn't tab management that is keeping the web from shining on mobile devices, it is basically the load time of webpages + Javascript, I think. Also the inability for the user to decide to store a website, so it loads faster the next time, including, for example, those GIF sites that take so much to load every time someone sends you a GIF that they may prefer to download the GIF and send it directly on the IM app.
rglover 9y ago
This is hot. Nice work.
lobster_johnson 9y ago
This looks very promising. A few things: I couldn't find a gesture to bring up sharing/action extensions [1]. This is super important. For example, I use 1Password for logins all the time. Also, the rounded corners are distracting and look like an anachronism. I want to view a web page the way it was intended, i.e. not with rounded corners. It should be possible to turn it off. The "X" in the URL field is confusing. I took it mean that it would clear the field, which is how a lot of iOS input fields work. But it actually closes the pane. I recommend moving it somewhere else and putting back the classic "X" that does clear the field. No way to reload a page without going into the URL field and hitting "Go" again is a bit annoying. The "history" is nice as a shorthand, but it's not good enough to be the real web browsing history. I like to keep all my history so I can search it. (No history search either?) I get the idea of using browser history as a substitute for tabs. However, if it's going to work, it has to work like tabs. Right now, if I go back to a previously visited page, it will not preserve any of its state (such as scroll position or form contents). [1] https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/extensions/sharing-and-actions/ https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/e...
untilHellbanned 9y ago
just installed it, i'm loving it. Most important to me is that it's FAST. Feels much faster than iOS Safari and iOS Chrome. I tried to like Brendan Eich's Brave browser for about 2 weeks, but I didn't detect any clear advantages, so I stopped. Keep up the good work!
symlinkk 9y ago
What is the point of having a third party browser on iOS when you can't change the default from Safari?
drizze 9y ago
Great app, totally going to start using it on a day to day basis. It looks like deep links appear to be broken for me: Link https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/public-wifi-nyc/id1232095734?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/public-wifi-nyc/id1232095734... Renders this screen http://imgur.com/a/E29QX http://imgur.com/a/E29QX Also is there better place I can submit this kind of feedback? EDIT: Found github repo and made an issue: https://github.com/spolu/dazzle/issues https://github.com/spolu/dazzle/issues
improbable22 9y ago
Just tried this a bit, I like the idea of a simple browser, have tried lots. Like having the address at the bottom, hate that Safari has this and tabs at opposite ends of tge phone. Corners are cute. Agree with Lobster that "X" is confusing, but useful... seems like the right button with the wrong symbol. It would also be nice if the last few pages could be frozen, so as not to lose scroll position and half typed comments... but perhaps hard? One better than safari would be to show which tabs are still loaded. How do I clear cookies? My vote would be for this to happen in the background, perhaps 24hrs after I looked at the page which put them there. Is it possible for it to use my iOS content blockers?
kup0 9y ago
If it had options to block ads, I would be very interested.

57 points by spolu 9y ago

Hi HN! I built dazzle with Antoine out of the frustration of having to use tabs on mobile. We wanted to explore a shared history/tabs mechanism that we expected to be particularly adapted to mobile usage. After a few months of dog fooding we felt like it was time to share it publicly even if it's still a bit rough on the edges (and very experimental really). Hope you have fun trying it, feedback welcome and encouraged.

lefstathiou 9y ago
Nice work on this. I actually like the simplicity of it. Feels light weight and fast. We live in an era of distrust so without seeing your terms / privacy policy I was not comfortable logging into a site with a password so may be worth adding a blurb about that. On the bottom where you display the URL, I value seeing HTTPS where applicable as well. I don't want to feel like I am losing security by using this. Last thought, it would be nice to customize the homepage away from google. This one is just vanity though. Good work and good luck.
- spolu 9y ago
  Hi! That's fair. Pending terms of services; you have access to the source code here: https://github.com/spolu/dazzle https://github.com/spolu/dazzle Of course; this is all very experimental for now. PS: that's the whole point of a Show HN :-)
  - spolu 9y ago
    Also there is no server. We don't store any data outside the app / your phone.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

michaelmior 9y ago

What are the "first principles" you based the design on?

spolu 9y ago
Mostly a shared tab/history system that feel much more adapted to mobile. To a certain degree, access to everything without changing hand or an additional hand. Under the hood there's only one WKWebview and that makes it feel surprinsingly I have to admit slightly faster.
- echan00 9y ago
  So is the main value prop a browser that can be controlled with one hand? I don't want to sound like a hater, but don't call it "designed from first principles" if it really isn't that.
  - spolu 9y ago
    What about the shared tab/history concept?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- dorian-graph 9y ago
  Where did these first principles come from?
echan00 9y ago
thank you, that was my first question too.

afro88 9y ago

Wow, this is done in React Native: https://github.com/spolu/dazzle https://github.com/spolu/dazzle

qmarchi 9y ago
How hard would it be to compile a version for Android?
- spolu 9y ago
  It's a bit optimized for WKWebView for now... but not impossible to support android with a bit of work

deanclatworthy 9y ago

As a product page visitor using mobile your page is useless to me. No screenshots, no intro video. I'm not going to make a commitment to using something without either of those two.

zghst 9y ago
For me it's something that actually stood out. Just the features.

snissn 9y ago

What security promises can you make? How do I know that you're not hijacking my cookies and passwords? I atleast trust apple and Google with my data before even opening their browsers

spolu 9y ago
Completely understandable. There is no server, we don't store any data outside the app and the source code is available here https://github.com/spolu/dazzle https://github.com/spolu/dazzle But of course this is Show HN material so still totally experimental.
- hRrrm1 9y ago
  From the code it seems like pages can navigate to `file://` URLs? I don't have a bin handy or I would check myself.

cupcakestand 9y ago

Tried Dazzle few times this afternoon and this browser is just brilliant. Why: Currently, user interaction with tabs on mobile browsers is totally broken and super cumbersome. Dazzle is merging browsing history with tabs which is smart and leads to a super smooth user experience. Actually, there are no tabs anymore, just the browser history which pops ups every time you touch the address bar at the bottom. Simple but nice solution. Moreover, it offers a bigger viewport than Safari does (no iOS navigation bar at the bottom und a black slick and super slim address bar). Finally, I like the slightly rounded corners of the viewport. All small and subtle stuff but shows that the creator cares about a polished appearance. But I am not sure about the landing page and this 'first principle' thing. People don't get it and it sounds super awkward. Really remake the landing page, make it slicker, put some screenshots there, remove the first principle blabla, find a punchy headline and remake all the copy. You should definitely keep on working on this and not let yourself getting discouraged. The product and the minimalistic approach you chose is excellent, the Marekting/branding not so.

spolu 9y ago
Thanks! That's exactly what excites us as well and motivated us to work on this. What message would you use on the landing page?
- cupcakestand 9y ago
  > What message would you use on the landing page? Good question and not sure myself. You could make it straight and simple and put the focus on the missing tabs. Then, your header would be something like 'The No-tabs Browser'. This might be again too simple and you could get a bit more abstract and stress your minimalstic approach ('The Less-is-More Browser'). However, I'd tend to be to the point and build a story around the main feauture. Or you find a new hook in the communication, e.g. privacy. Then, your UI is kind of nice side-benefit and the DNA. How many are you and where are you from?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
9y ago

fulafel 9y ago

What does first principle mean here? Is it a from-scratch engine or is it a redesign of the chrome, or both?

w33ble 9y ago

Nice job! Of all the third party browsers I've tried on iOS, this is the only one that feels as nice as mobile Safari, and the only one I'd consider using full time. Do you have any plans to implement bookmarks, or any way to "pin" items in the history? I use the mobile Safari favorites all the time for quick access to 4 or 5 sites. Seems like the one thing missing from Dazzle.

llorca 9y ago
Thank you! Spot on, we'd like to add a pinning functionality in the future, to keep track of to-dos for instance. We haven't gotten to it just yet.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

fiatjaf 9y ago

It isn't tab management that is keeping the web from shining on mobile devices, it is basically the load time of webpages + Javascript, I think. Also the inability for the user to decide to store a website, so it loads faster the next time, including, for example, those GIF sites that take so much to load every time someone sends you a GIF that they may prefer to download the GIF and send it directly on the IM app.

rglover 9y ago

This is hot. Nice work.

lobster_johnson 9y ago

This looks very promising. A few things: I couldn't find a gesture to bring up sharing/action extensions [1]. This is super important. For example, I use 1Password for logins all the time. Also, the rounded corners are distracting and look like an anachronism. I want to view a web page the way it was intended, i.e. not with rounded corners. It should be possible to turn it off. The "X" in the URL field is confusing. I took it mean that it would clear the field, which is how a lot of iOS input fields work. But it actually closes the pane. I recommend moving it somewhere else and putting back the classic "X" that does clear the field. No way to reload a page without going into the URL field and hitting "Go" again is a bit annoying. The "history" is nice as a shorthand, but it's not good enough to be the real web browsing history. I like to keep all my history so I can search it. (No history search either?) I get the idea of using browser history as a substitute for tabs. However, if it's going to work, it has to work like tabs. Right now, if I go back to a previously visited page, it will not preserve any of its state (such as scroll position or form contents). [1] https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/extensions/sharing-and-actions/ https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/e...

untilHellbanned 9y ago

just installed it, i'm loving it. Most important to me is that it's FAST. Feels much faster than iOS Safari and iOS Chrome. I tried to like Brendan Eich's Brave browser for about 2 weeks, but I didn't detect any clear advantages, so I stopped. Keep up the good work!

symlinkk 9y ago

What is the point of having a third party browser on iOS when you can't change the default from Safari?

drizze 9y ago

Great app, totally going to start using it on a day to day basis. It looks like deep links appear to be broken for me: Link https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/public-wifi-nyc/id1232095734?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/public-wifi-nyc/id1232095734... Renders this screen http://imgur.com/a/E29QX http://imgur.com/a/E29QX Also is there better place I can submit this kind of feedback? EDIT: Found github repo and made an issue: https://github.com/spolu/dazzle/issues https://github.com/spolu/dazzle/issues

improbable22 9y ago

Just tried this a bit, I like the idea of a simple browser, have tried lots. Like having the address at the bottom, hate that Safari has this and tabs at opposite ends of tge phone. Corners are cute. Agree with Lobster that "X" is confusing, but useful... seems like the right button with the wrong symbol. It would also be nice if the last few pages could be frozen, so as not to lose scroll position and half typed comments... but perhaps hard? One better than safari would be to show which tabs are still loaded. How do I clear cookies? My vote would be for this to happen in the background, perhaps 24hrs after I looked at the page which put them there. Is it possible for it to use my iOS content blockers?

kup0 9y ago

If it had options to block ads, I would be very interested.