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> If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Students actually don't have a right to forcibl

> If leftist students can block Ann Coulter from speaking then why can't Chinese students block the Dalai Lama? Students actually don't have a right to forcibly block speakers. That's a common misconception of free speech. If you want to see examples of how real free speech is upheld, check out cases on thefire.org [1]. It's a law firm that specializes in tackling free speech issues on college campuses. However, they can't take a case without a plaintiff. So, if one group protests and succeeds in blocking some speaker, the burden is still on the victimized group to file a lawsuit. As they say, freedom isn't free, and you need to fight to keep it. [1] https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/free-speech/ https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/free-speech/

mistermann 9y ago
It isn't a legal right, it is a de facto right. Generally speaking, only left leaning speakers are allowed on campuses. Generally speaking, only pro-immigration speech is allowed in polite company. This story, at least to me, also illustrates Chinese immigrants aren't interested in immigrating to other countries because they like the culture, way of life, etc and are choosing them as a new home to raise their families (well, this is part of it of course), but perhaps even unbeknownst to themselves, they have a strong intention to modify their host cultures into a form more like what they are used to.
- Harimwakairi 9y ago
  > Generally speaking, only left leaning speakers are allowed on campuses. No. Just no. While American college campuses tend to skew left, they are not fortresses of liberalism where everyone duckspeaks about Bernie Sanders. They all have conservative professors, Young Republicans clubs, and so on. Hell, part of my large, public university tuition money went to pay a 50k speaking fee to Alberto Gonzales, ffs.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    When the riots and shouting over top of conservative speakers so they can't be heard stops, then I will concede that I was wrong, until then, I consider you wrong. Freedom of speech used to be inalienable as a matter of principle, now the majority of college students vehemently oppose it. That is a fact.
    - saboot 9y ago
      If it's a fact why not cite something then? Nothing indicates a majority of students oppose free speech. I think many speakers are dumb, so I don't attend them.
- unityByFreedom 9y ago
  > It isn't a legal right, it is a de facto right. Our legal system allows you to challenge that. If a campus prevented your conservative group's speaker from speaking, you can sue and win. If you don't do that, you are failing to uphold free speech as we have upheld it for centuries in America. Your civil rights do not enforce themselves. > This story, at least to me, also illustrates Chinese immigrants aren't interested in immigrating to other countries because they like the culture, way of life, etc and are choosing them as a new home to raise their families (well, this is part of it of course), but perhaps even unbeknownst to themselves, they have a strong intention to modify their host cultures into a form more like what they are used to. Of course. That's many people's reaction to a new culture. They want the things they like from both. It's still your job as an American to uphold American values.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    > Our legal system allows you to challenge that. If a campus prevented your conservative group's speaker from speaking, you can sue and win. Sure, might as well sue mother nature for the temperature rise. What we're seeing is a force of nature, the legal profession cannot stop it, overall society has to choose to stop it, which means they have to choose to allow conservative voices.
    - porpoisemonkey 9y ago
      > What we're seeing is a force of nature, the legal profession cannot stop it, overall society has to choose to stop it, which means they have to choose to allow conservative voices. I find this observation very strange considering the current political climate in the United States. Isn't the conservative voice the dominant voice being expressed in the executive and legislative branches right now?
      - mistermann 9y ago
        Political leaders don't define the culture, the culture is defined by activists within the culture itself, and the left is winning.
- zhemao 9y ago
  Chinese students studying at American universities may not necessarily be looking to set down roots in the US. Most of them return to China after getting their degrees. As for the question of assimilation, it takes a generation for cultural attitudes to shift. People aren't going to abandon the cultural values of their homeland. But their children will grow up as Americans and adopt more American ways of thinking.
- akhilcacharya 9y ago
  >Generally speaking, only pro-immigration speech is allowed in polite company. Anti-immigration speech was very far outside of the Overton window until very recently - a development I find incredibly concerning.
  - hyperdunc 9y ago
    Are you saying you're concerned that anti-immigration speech is now more acceptable? If so, why?
    - rtpg 9y ago
      Because most of it is wrong? Most of the speech is around ideas that have been proven wrong over and over again. It's the same as when people come in and talk about a database that "solves" CAP. Perhaps a better example is climate denial. Why do I have to listen to decades old debunked discussions over and over again? EDIT: I also disagree with the premise. Loads of polite company will happily discuss immigration restriction and beyond. Though that's not your main point, I suppose. It's not society's job to have all speech be acceptable. It's speakers' job to actually formulate ideas in a way that society accepts. If you can't, the simplest explanation is that you're wrong, not that you're innovative.
      - Spooky23 9y ago
        Immigration issues aren't climate change. Why is it a moral imperative to import, abuse, and discard Mexican and Guatemalan workers to pick your fruit and butcher your meat? Why could you drive around to Home Depot in the morning and see construction guys and landscapers hiring mostly immigrant, often illegal day laborers for cash? My grandparents were able to migrate here legally in the 1940s without a pimp-like corporate sponsor holding them hostage or living illegally and being a second class citizen. Flooding the market with cheap labor that works cheap because they have no agency of their own hurts everyone. If you want immigration that's fine, but don't advocate for the status quo -- take on immigrants as equals. If we did that, we might find that impoverished classes of US citizens would have an opportunity to enter the workforce.

mistermann 9y ago

It isn't a legal right, it is a de facto right. Generally speaking, only left leaning speakers are allowed on campuses. Generally speaking, only pro-immigration speech is allowed in polite company. This story, at least to me, also illustrates Chinese immigrants aren't interested in immigrating to other countries because they like the culture, way of life, etc and are choosing them as a new home to raise their families (well, this is part of it of course), but perhaps even unbeknownst to themselves, they have a strong intention to modify their host cultures into a form more like what they are used to.

Harimwakairi 9y ago
> Generally speaking, only left leaning speakers are allowed on campuses. No. Just no. While American college campuses tend to skew left, they are not fortresses of liberalism where everyone duckspeaks about Bernie Sanders. They all have conservative professors, Young Republicans clubs, and so on. Hell, part of my large, public university tuition money went to pay a 50k speaking fee to Alberto Gonzales, ffs.
- mistermann 9y ago
  When the riots and shouting over top of conservative speakers so they can't be heard stops, then I will concede that I was wrong, until then, I consider you wrong. Freedom of speech used to be inalienable as a matter of principle, now the majority of college students vehemently oppose it. That is a fact.
  - saboot 9y ago
    If it's a fact why not cite something then? Nothing indicates a majority of students oppose free speech. I think many speakers are dumb, so I don't attend them.
unityByFreedom 9y ago
> It isn't a legal right, it is a de facto right. Our legal system allows you to challenge that. If a campus prevented your conservative group's speaker from speaking, you can sue and win. If you don't do that, you are failing to uphold free speech as we have upheld it for centuries in America. Your civil rights do not enforce themselves. > This story, at least to me, also illustrates Chinese immigrants aren't interested in immigrating to other countries because they like the culture, way of life, etc and are choosing them as a new home to raise their families (well, this is part of it of course), but perhaps even unbeknownst to themselves, they have a strong intention to modify their host cultures into a form more like what they are used to. Of course. That's many people's reaction to a new culture. They want the things they like from both. It's still your job as an American to uphold American values.
- mistermann 9y ago
  > Our legal system allows you to challenge that. If a campus prevented your conservative group's speaker from speaking, you can sue and win. Sure, might as well sue mother nature for the temperature rise. What we're seeing is a force of nature, the legal profession cannot stop it, overall society has to choose to stop it, which means they have to choose to allow conservative voices.
  - porpoisemonkey 9y ago
    > What we're seeing is a force of nature, the legal profession cannot stop it, overall society has to choose to stop it, which means they have to choose to allow conservative voices. I find this observation very strange considering the current political climate in the United States. Isn't the conservative voice the dominant voice being expressed in the executive and legislative branches right now?
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Political leaders don't define the culture, the culture is defined by activists within the culture itself, and the left is winning.
zhemao 9y ago
Chinese students studying at American universities may not necessarily be looking to set down roots in the US. Most of them return to China after getting their degrees. As for the question of assimilation, it takes a generation for cultural attitudes to shift. People aren't going to abandon the cultural values of their homeland. But their children will grow up as Americans and adopt more American ways of thinking.
akhilcacharya 9y ago
>Generally speaking, only pro-immigration speech is allowed in polite company. Anti-immigration speech was very far outside of the Overton window until very recently - a development I find incredibly concerning.
- hyperdunc 9y ago
  Are you saying you're concerned that anti-immigration speech is now more acceptable? If so, why?
  - rtpg 9y ago
    Because most of it is wrong? Most of the speech is around ideas that have been proven wrong over and over again. It's the same as when people come in and talk about a database that "solves" CAP. Perhaps a better example is climate denial. Why do I have to listen to decades old debunked discussions over and over again? EDIT: I also disagree with the premise. Loads of polite company will happily discuss immigration restriction and beyond. Though that's not your main point, I suppose. It's not society's job to have all speech be acceptable. It's speakers' job to actually formulate ideas in a way that society accepts. If you can't, the simplest explanation is that you're wrong, not that you're innovative.
    - Spooky23 9y ago
      Immigration issues aren't climate change. Why is it a moral imperative to import, abuse, and discard Mexican and Guatemalan workers to pick your fruit and butcher your meat? Why could you drive around to Home Depot in the morning and see construction guys and landscapers hiring mostly immigrant, often illegal day laborers for cash? My grandparents were able to migrate here legally in the 1940s without a pimp-like corporate sponsor holding them hostage or living illegally and being a second class citizen. Flooding the market with cheap labor that works cheap because they have no agency of their own hurts everyone. If you want immigration that's fine, but don't advocate for the status quo -- take on immigrants as equals. If we did that, we might find that impoverished classes of US citizens would have an opportunity to enter the workforce.