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There is no doubt that Manning was stupid, but he's a 22 YO kid. Lamo made no attempt to talk the kid down: he just sold him out to a military that runs secret

There is no doubt that Manning was stupid, but he's a 22 YO kid. Lamo made no attempt to talk the kid down: he just sold him out to a military that runs secret prisons, tortures, and claims the right to be able to assassinate its own citizens. My guess is Lamo, despite his argument that there was morality behind what he did, sold the kid out to protect himself. Given Lamo's lax sentence for past crimes (6 months house arrest), I'd guess he made an agreement to inform in the future.

jimfl 16y ago
It isn't like Lamo sold out a fellow hacker; Manning had special access, and probably obtained the leaked information using that, rather than any particular skills. That phone call to Lamo was tantamount to "Hi. You don't know me, but you're now an accessory to treason." Already convicted felon or not, nobody needs that kind of turd dropped right in the middle of their life.
- mechanical_fish 16y ago
  I agree completely. Except for one thing: "Already convicted felon or not" makes it sound as if being convicted of felony A makes it easier to handle being accused of felony B. But the opposite is the case. Lamo could easily have been looking at a scenario where he got far worse punishment than the actual perp. Getting a conviction against a known felon is so, so easy. It's not inconceivable that he would have ended up taking the fall. Just because it happens in spy novels doesn't mean it can't happen. As for the ethics of turning Manning over to the tender mercies of the US Government: no matter what you may think of the ethics of commiting the particular crime that Manning is accused of, there are limits to how far down the cliff you should follow a suicidal person. When you get a cold call from someone you do not know to tell you about some serious Federal crimes, there are several possibilities. One is that the caller is the real thing. Another, far more likely, is that he's mentally ill or trying to punk or scam you. Yet another is that he's a government agent trying to entrap you. But one thing is for sure: there is nothing that you, the world, or the "hacker" community will lose by turning this guy in. He's obviously an order of magnitude too indiscreet to be a good spy, he's going to succeed in getting himself caught any second now, and the only question is whether you're going down with him.
fdschoeneman 16y ago
It's the Obama administration claiming this right, not the military. It's the CIA that has been accused of torture prisons (and it was Al Gore who had no problem with rendition), not the military. And the Congress really should provide explicit guidance on what is and is not torture, rather than ducking responsibility so that the military can do its job. I can see dumping the gun camera footage. It may have been principled. The government, after all, chose to ignore what looked to me like an eminently fair FOIA request from Reuters, so it kind of deserved to get p0wned by the Annie Lennox lookalike who runs wikileaks. But a lot of the rest of it just seems like a kid throwing his fellow soldiers under a bus, weakening his country, and being a punk. I'd have done the same thing Lamo did, once I knew the extent of what Manning had done.
- mcantelon 16y ago
  You're correct. I should have used the words "state security apparatus" to represent the various organs of empire instead of "military".

jimfl 16y ago

It isn't like Lamo sold out a fellow hacker; Manning had special access, and probably obtained the leaked information using that, rather than any particular skills. That phone call to Lamo was tantamount to "Hi. You don't know me, but you're now an accessory to treason." Already convicted felon or not, nobody needs that kind of turd dropped right in the middle of their life.

mechanical_fish 16y ago
I agree completely. Except for one thing: "Already convicted felon or not" makes it sound as if being convicted of felony A makes it easier to handle being accused of felony B. But the opposite is the case. Lamo could easily have been looking at a scenario where he got far worse punishment than the actual perp. Getting a conviction against a known felon is so, so easy. It's not inconceivable that he would have ended up taking the fall. Just because it happens in spy novels doesn't mean it can't happen. As for the ethics of turning Manning over to the tender mercies of the US Government: no matter what you may think of the ethics of commiting the particular crime that Manning is accused of, there are limits to how far down the cliff you should follow a suicidal person. When you get a cold call from someone you do not know to tell you about some serious Federal crimes, there are several possibilities. One is that the caller is the real thing. Another, far more likely, is that he's mentally ill or trying to punk or scam you. Yet another is that he's a government agent trying to entrap you. But one thing is for sure: there is nothing that you, the world, or the "hacker" community will lose by turning this guy in. He's obviously an order of magnitude too indiscreet to be a good spy, he's going to succeed in getting himself caught any second now, and the only question is whether you're going down with him.

fdschoeneman 16y ago

It's the Obama administration claiming this right, not the military. It's the CIA that has been accused of torture prisons (and it was Al Gore who had no problem with rendition), not the military. And the Congress really should provide explicit guidance on what is and is not torture, rather than ducking responsibility so that the military can do its job. I can see dumping the gun camera footage. It may have been principled. The government, after all, chose to ignore what looked to me like an eminently fair FOIA request from Reuters, so it kind of deserved to get p0wned by the Annie Lennox lookalike who runs wikileaks. But a lot of the rest of it just seems like a kid throwing his fellow soldiers under a bus, weakening his country, and being a punk. I'd have done the same thing Lamo did, once I knew the extent of what Manning had done.

mcantelon 16y ago
You're correct. I should have used the words "state security apparatus" to represent the various organs of empire instead of "military".