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Nearly 2/3rds of Android phones that have accessed the Google Play store in the week leading up to May 2nd are not on Android 6 or later: https://developer.and

by cwyers 10y ago

Nearly 2/3rds of Android phones that have accessed the Google Play store in the week leading up to May 2nd are not on Android 6 or later: https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

izacus 10y ago
I'm not sure what you're comment is trying to say - TARGETING a new API doesn't meant you don't SUPPORT an older API. It just determines backwards compatiblity behaviour. We currently release a product that supports Android 4.1 while targeting Android 7.1. Also this dashboard is hugely misleading for the HN audience - in western audiences (USA, Canada, EU, etc. - countries HN users are from) we're tracking ~10% devices that are running Android 4.x and more than 40% devices running on Android 6.0 with additional 15% on 7.x - meaning more than half of active western users are running decently modern Android.
- cwyers 10y ago
  What it's trying to say is that this can be a big problem even if it doesn't affect Android 6 and up. Your own statistics say it can affect up to 45% of Android users.
  - izacus 10y ago
    I completely agree. The Android upgrade situation is a huge and rather well known issue.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Not to Google, as they don't care. Now with Android N reaching 7%,one year later, who do they think will even bother with Android O?
      - on_and_off 10y ago
        I work on a large Android app and we do bother with Android O. As soon as the sdk will be final we will think about compiling against it and targeting it. We are not in a huge hurry, it can skip a release or 2 (we release every 3 weeks). There are no big breaking changes though (unlike let's say Marshmallow) so as long as the support lib is stable (it needs to match with compile version) we are going to support it ASAP. We also have some N features like shortcuts.
        pjmlp 10y ago
        How many customers do you feel will have devices with Android O, given Android N is around 7% after one year?
        on_and_off 10y ago
        It goes further than that. First, that 7% figure is the whole Android (with play services) user base, numbers are pretty different on the dashboard of our general public app. Secondly, we will start by compiling for O : the supports libraries are only tested for their corresponding compile version. That way we will be able to use new support lib features on all Android versions. Then, we will target O (probably in the same release of the app). It should be pretty trivial : this is not marshmallow with the new permission system, system level changes in O are manageable. For clarification, the build script of an android app separates compile version (= binary compatibility) and target version (= you handle the new behaviors of the system like granular permission in M) By targeting O ASAP we : - are potentially able to ship some features based on this release, like shortcuts for N. Sure, we are not going to spend a lot of dev time on an O-only feature right now but there are some easy wins. And of course the install base does not stay small for very long. -are able to detect potential problems before OEMs start launching flagships with that Android version and we get millions of crashes / day. There is really no good reason to stay behind.
  - on_and_off 10y ago
    The landscape of people who actually download apps is very different though. And he has a point : Google could easily ask that all new apps target the last version of the OS.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Just as they could "nicely" require OEMs to get their game straight.
      - on_and_off 10y ago
        Not sure how it could work out tbh. Ok I am not a lawyer or a part of the negotiations between Google and OEMs but I don't think Google can force OEMs to keep phones up to date for a given amount of time. First, it is not just up to the OEMs, they need new drivers for new platform versions. Secondly, what leverage does Google have here ? Preventing OEMs from releasing phones with Play Services looks like a really sharp double edged sword. Even triple edged actually since consumers would also suffer from this kind of deal.
- anon1385 10y ago
  Are you suggesting it's ok for non-western users to be tracked this way? Why would we ignore most of the world when discussing an issue like this?
  - izacus 10y ago
    I never said or claimed anything like that. Where did you get that idea?
    - anon1385 10y ago
      Your comments here are arguing that this isn't a problem. You called the stats dashboard "hugely misleading" with the implication that the problem is not as bad as it would suggest, but actually it shows that the problem is worse than the average western based HN developer realises (based on their day to day experience).
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      anon1385 is a step ahead of you; s/he inferred it from your argument and is asking you to consider the implications thereof.
    - cwyers 10y ago
      Then what were you claiming? Because I posted the worldwide stats and you called them misleading. Misleading who about what?
      - izacus 10y ago
        About the actual usage and activity of the devices in the wild. The network that does that is targeting western markets where the availability of devices that are vulnerable is dropping steeply - not fast enough, but still. I've yet to also see a single worldwide USAGE statistic that would reflect that dashboard. Whatever Google is counting is not the users that actually download and use apps (and are thus vulnerable) - pretty much all stats I've ever seen (even on apps with millions of worldwide downloads) have significantly higher update rates. Hence - misleading.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Please don't use all caps on HN. Use an asterisk * at the beginning and end of the text you wish to emphasize to get italics.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Here in Germany all low budget phones are still 4.x, which are what everyone on pre-paid mostly buys. Same applies to the southern countries, which I visit regularly. Most people on 6.0+ are on contracts, which are the minority, even though many of them might be using your app.
gcb0 10y ago
do the opposite. build your app for android 5 and push to the store. done. target 100% of devices and get no dialog for android 6 users.

by cwyers 10y ago

izacus 10y ago

I'm not sure what you're comment is trying to say - TARGETING a new API doesn't meant you don't SUPPORT an older API. It just determines backwards compatiblity behaviour. We currently release a product that supports Android 4.1 while targeting Android 7.1. Also this dashboard is hugely misleading for the HN audience - in western audiences (USA, Canada, EU, etc. - countries HN users are from) we're tracking ~10% devices that are running Android 4.x and more than 40% devices running on Android 6.0 with additional 15% on 7.x - meaning more than half of active western users are running decently modern Android.

cwyers 10y ago
What it's trying to say is that this can be a big problem even if it doesn't affect Android 6 and up. Your own statistics say it can affect up to 45% of Android users.
- izacus 10y ago
  I completely agree. The Android upgrade situation is a huge and rather well known issue.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Not to Google, as they don't care. Now with Android N reaching 7%,one year later, who do they think will even bother with Android O?
    - on_and_off 10y ago
      I work on a large Android app and we do bother with Android O. As soon as the sdk will be final we will think about compiling against it and targeting it. We are not in a huge hurry, it can skip a release or 2 (we release every 3 weeks). There are no big breaking changes though (unlike let's say Marshmallow) so as long as the support lib is stable (it needs to match with compile version) we are going to support it ASAP. We also have some N features like shortcuts.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        How many customers do you feel will have devices with Android O, given Android N is around 7% after one year?
        on_and_off 10y ago
        It goes further than that. First, that 7% figure is the whole Android (with play services) user base, numbers are pretty different on the dashboard of our general public app. Secondly, we will start by compiling for O : the supports libraries are only tested for their corresponding compile version. That way we will be able to use new support lib features on all Android versions. Then, we will target O (probably in the same release of the app). It should be pretty trivial : this is not marshmallow with the new permission system, system level changes in O are manageable. For clarification, the build script of an android app separates compile version (= binary compatibility) and target version (= you handle the new behaviors of the system like granular permission in M) By targeting O ASAP we : - are potentially able to ship some features based on this release, like shortcuts for N. Sure, we are not going to spend a lot of dev time on an O-only feature right now but there are some easy wins. And of course the install base does not stay small for very long. -are able to detect potential problems before OEMs start launching flagships with that Android version and we get millions of crashes / day. There is really no good reason to stay behind.
- on_and_off 10y ago
  The landscape of people who actually download apps is very different though. And he has a point : Google could easily ask that all new apps target the last version of the OS.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Just as they could "nicely" require OEMs to get their game straight.
    - on_and_off 10y ago
      Not sure how it could work out tbh. Ok I am not a lawyer or a part of the negotiations between Google and OEMs but I don't think Google can force OEMs to keep phones up to date for a given amount of time. First, it is not just up to the OEMs, they need new drivers for new platform versions. Secondly, what leverage does Google have here ? Preventing OEMs from releasing phones with Play Services looks like a really sharp double edged sword. Even triple edged actually since consumers would also suffer from this kind of deal.
anon1385 10y ago
Are you suggesting it's ok for non-western users to be tracked this way? Why would we ignore most of the world when discussing an issue like this?
- izacus 10y ago
  I never said or claimed anything like that. Where did you get that idea?
  - anon1385 10y ago
    Your comments here are arguing that this isn't a problem. You called the stats dashboard "hugely misleading" with the implication that the problem is not as bad as it would suggest, but actually it shows that the problem is worse than the average western based HN developer realises (based on their day to day experience).
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    anon1385 is a step ahead of you; s/he inferred it from your argument and is asking you to consider the implications thereof.
  - cwyers 10y ago
    Then what were you claiming? Because I posted the worldwide stats and you called them misleading. Misleading who about what?
    - izacus 10y ago
      About the actual usage and activity of the devices in the wild. The network that does that is targeting western markets where the availability of devices that are vulnerable is dropping steeply - not fast enough, but still. I've yet to also see a single worldwide USAGE statistic that would reflect that dashboard. Whatever Google is counting is not the users that actually download and use apps (and are thus vulnerable) - pretty much all stats I've ever seen (even on apps with millions of worldwide downloads) have significantly higher update rates. Hence - misleading.
anigbrowl 10y ago
Please don't use all caps on HN. Use an asterisk * at the beginning and end of the text you wish to emphasize to get italics.
pjmlp 10y ago
Here in Germany all low budget phones are still 4.x, which are what everyone on pre-paid mostly buys. Same applies to the southern countries, which I visit regularly. Most people on 6.0+ are on contracts, which are the minority, even though many of them might be using your app.

gcb0 10y ago

do the opposite. build your app for android 5 and push to the store. done. target 100% of devices and get no dialog for android 6 users.