4 ms·

This article makes some decent points around class and the expense of a computer in the 80s/90s. But it dodges more substantial questions, and a lot of the subs

by rm999 9y ago

This article makes some decent points around class and the expense of a computer in the 80s/90s. But it dodges more substantial questions, and a lot of the substance is either circular logic or confirmation bias. There are plenty of asian men in programming, so this isn't a race thing. It probably is socioeconomic for the reasons the article points out, so that's fine - I think we can leave it at "white and asian people dominate programming because they tend to come from wealthier families". I think the much harder question is why women aren't in programming. They make up 50% of the population and come from the same exact socioeconomic background as men. This question is important because the repercussions still haunt us today. The article starts this question with "girls weren’t interested in computers or video games at all", and then circles the logic with "people tend to do things that they see other people who are 'like them' doing". Well, I'd like to know why women weren't interested in programming. In my circumstantial experience it wasn't a conscious decision or peer pressure, it was coming top down from society. I saw many parents encouraging their sons to play with computers and completely ignoring that their daughters may want to also. The article completely avoids this topic, sadly. edit: downvoted within 30 seconds - if you're gonna downvote, please at least reply and start a discussion about it.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> There are plenty of asian men in programming, so this isn't a race thing. That whites aren't the only race disproportionately advantaged does not in any way support the conclusion that it isn't (in part or in whole) “a race thing”.
- rm999 9y ago
  The article doesn't even argue that it's a race thing, it simply starts with the premise but explains it as socioeconomic. I agree with the article on that one. I am not white and I was never discouraged in any way from programming because of my skin color or ethnic background (I've been doing it in some form since I was 6 in the late 80s with full support from pretty much everyone, including a lot of monetary support from my upper middle class parents). edit: it actually does get into race, but around blacks/african americans. But it didn't get into Asians - my point really is this isn't a white thing per se.
Pica_soO 9y ago
I once had plans to create a small scripting language, specifically designed for woman in tech. I always envied woman for the ability to hold such huge social networks in their memorys and manipulate them. Maybe if you you made a programming language whose basic datastructure is similar to another person, and who's classes communicated with each other. Then i held a C-Introduction course at university for a womans only class and abandoned the idea. Its not that woman are not smart enough to grasp tech, quite the contrary, on average they where faster learners then men. The problem is that woman constantly evaluate their surroundings, and value their prospects accordingly. And sorry, Nerds dont make for a high-value surrounding. This is no shiny glass apple-shoe-box a programmer princess lands- this a dorm shoe-box filled with Ramen eating nerds, partially unwashed, seemingly stuck in infinite childhood( W40k as a break talk), which to make things more bewildering, is a bonus to the job, because you are able to grasp things faster with a playful mindset. Lots of Hitchiker and LoRs insider jokes between the Bachelors and the graduating Masters dont help to that either. Its like a great Insiders game - to which you have come much too late - and which compared to other groups doesn't look very glamorous. Now, hold against this, the other study groups- lawyers, MBAs and doctors who hold at universities quite the social high life (every fraternitys part is famous, except for the Infoguys) already- and you begin to grasp why programing doesn't keep woman interested. Its small stuff, and its eroding away confidence, one day at a time.
- dismantlethesun 9y ago
  I guess the question is why aren't the unwashed ramen eating nerds of the female gender interested in programming? Now let's not pretend they don't exist, they're key members of any university anime club. Why did they choose systems, civil, and chemical engineering over computer science?
  - Pica_soO 9y ago
    I forgot the neurotics and otherwise social outcasts. Not that unwashed, but definitely not bragging material for someone who defines his value by the showman factor of the company he spends time with.
FT_intern 9y ago
> Well, I'd like to know why women weren't interested in programming A better question would be, what are girls doing in their child and teen years instead of isolating themselves in their basement playing video games/trolling online communities/learning a little programming? Is it really a privilege for kids who are interested in programming to be isolating themselves like that in their adolescent years?
- dismantlethesun 9y ago
  It's anecdotal but programming has always been social for me. It started when I was 8 going over basic programs with my father looking over my shoulder. It continued as my cousins and I planned out and tried to make games. I was lucky enough for every school I had to have a programming club and class. Our club spent hours after school together and went to contests across the state. To me it wasn't isolating anymore than any other hobby could have been.

by rm999 9y ago

dragonwriter 9y ago

> There are plenty of asian men in programming, so this isn't a race thing. That whites aren't the only race disproportionately advantaged does not in any way support the conclusion that it isn't (in part or in whole) “a race thing”.

rm999 9y ago
The article doesn't even argue that it's a race thing, it simply starts with the premise but explains it as socioeconomic. I agree with the article on that one. I am not white and I was never discouraged in any way from programming because of my skin color or ethnic background (I've been doing it in some form since I was 6 in the late 80s with full support from pretty much everyone, including a lot of monetary support from my upper middle class parents). edit: it actually does get into race, but around blacks/african americans. But it didn't get into Asians - my point really is this isn't a white thing per se.

Pica_soO 9y ago

I once had plans to create a small scripting language, specifically designed for woman in tech. I always envied woman for the ability to hold such huge social networks in their memorys and manipulate them. Maybe if you you made a programming language whose basic datastructure is similar to another person, and who's classes communicated with each other. Then i held a C-Introduction course at university for a womans only class and abandoned the idea. Its not that woman are not smart enough to grasp tech, quite the contrary, on average they where faster learners then men. The problem is that woman constantly evaluate their surroundings, and value their prospects accordingly. And sorry, Nerds dont make for a high-value surrounding. This is no shiny glass apple-shoe-box a programmer princess lands- this a dorm shoe-box filled with Ramen eating nerds, partially unwashed, seemingly stuck in infinite childhood( W40k as a break talk), which to make things more bewildering, is a bonus to the job, because you are able to grasp things faster with a playful mindset. Lots of Hitchiker and LoRs insider jokes between the Bachelors and the graduating Masters dont help to that either. Its like a great Insiders game - to which you have come much too late - and which compared to other groups doesn't look very glamorous. Now, hold against this, the other study groups- lawyers, MBAs and doctors who hold at universities quite the social high life (every fraternitys part is famous, except for the Infoguys) already- and you begin to grasp why programing doesn't keep woman interested. Its small stuff, and its eroding away confidence, one day at a time.

dismantlethesun 9y ago
I guess the question is why aren't the unwashed ramen eating nerds of the female gender interested in programming? Now let's not pretend they don't exist, they're key members of any university anime club. Why did they choose systems, civil, and chemical engineering over computer science?
- Pica_soO 9y ago
  I forgot the neurotics and otherwise social outcasts. Not that unwashed, but definitely not bragging material for someone who defines his value by the showman factor of the company he spends time with.

FT_intern 9y ago

> Well, I'd like to know why women weren't interested in programming A better question would be, what are girls doing in their child and teen years instead of isolating themselves in their basement playing video games/trolling online communities/learning a little programming? Is it really a privilege for kids who are interested in programming to be isolating themselves like that in their adolescent years?

dismantlethesun 9y ago
It's anecdotal but programming has always been social for me. It started when I was 8 going over basic programs with my father looking over my shoulder. It continued as my cousins and I planned out and tried to make games. I was lucky enough for every school I had to have a programming club and class. Our club spent hours after school together and went to contests across the state. To me it wasn't isolating anymore than any other hobby could have been.