5 ms·

So when westerners dig up mummies in Egypt, cart them to the Louvre and sell tickets for the privilege of visitation, that's historical research but when folks

by sfifs 10y ago

So when westerners dig up mummies in Egypt, cart them to the Louvre and sell tickets for the privilege of visitation, that's historical research but when folks in poorer countries dig up metal from abandoned ships to sell, it's grave-robbing. Our ability for self-deception is breath taking.

Inconel 10y ago
There's also the possibility that both cases are grave robbing and that those remains in the Louvre should be repatriated.
Mvandenbergh 10y ago
Do many of those mummies have living children? There are people alive today who survived the sinking of those ships. Most Egyptian mummies come from a culture that was staggeringly remote and ancient - to Cleopatra, to later Byzantine culture, and certainly to Egypt after the Arab conquest... which was 1400 years ago! Bronze age remains from Europe are not treated differently, you know. Those are also in museums around the world.
ryanmarsh 10y ago
You mean more like northerners. Europe isn't all that far west of Egypt.
Spooky23 10y ago
The passing of millennia blunt the emotional aspects. Also, to assuage your cultural guilt, Egyptians, who feel no linkage to ancient people, are now digging up artifacts to hock to various wealthy collectors in the Middle East and Europe.
manarth 10y ago
Cultural sensitivity has increased, especially in the last 30 years or so. In the example of Egyptian mummies, they would be covered under the 1983 law of Protection of Antiquities. There's an ongoing controversy around the Elgin Marbles, which were removed to London between 1801 and 1805, and many people believe they should be returned. I think there's an increasing recognition that the historic behaviour of archaeologists removing artifacts for display wasn't necessarily acceptable, but addressing past wrongs is much harder than preventing new ones.
- Lordarminius 10y ago
  > Cultural sensitivity has increased ... It has not increased to any degree near adequate. But remove antiquities foreign antiquities from European museums and see how barren the halls and storage become... So I guess 'sensitivity' isn't going to increase any more than present levels.
  - virtuabhi 10y ago
    And to return Kohinoor diamond, we will have to remove it from Her Majesty's crown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor
EliRivers 10y ago
So when westerners dig up mummies in Egypt, cart them to the Louvre and sell tickets for the privilege of visitation, that's historical research No, that's grave robbing. When Westerners did that in the past, it was grave robbing. If they do it now, it's also grave robbing. I suspect a lot of Westerners agree.

by sfifs 10y ago

Inconel 10y ago

There's also the possibility that both cases are grave robbing and that those remains in the Louvre should be repatriated.

Mvandenbergh 10y ago

Do many of those mummies have living children? There are people alive today who survived the sinking of those ships. Most Egyptian mummies come from a culture that was staggeringly remote and ancient - to Cleopatra, to later Byzantine culture, and certainly to Egypt after the Arab conquest... which was 1400 years ago! Bronze age remains from Europe are not treated differently, you know. Those are also in museums around the world.

ryanmarsh 10y ago

You mean more like northerners. Europe isn't all that far west of Egypt.

Spooky23 10y ago

The passing of millennia blunt the emotional aspects. Also, to assuage your cultural guilt, Egyptians, who feel no linkage to ancient people, are now digging up artifacts to hock to various wealthy collectors in the Middle East and Europe.

manarth 10y ago

Cultural sensitivity has increased, especially in the last 30 years or so. In the example of Egyptian mummies, they would be covered under the 1983 law of Protection of Antiquities. There's an ongoing controversy around the Elgin Marbles, which were removed to London between 1801 and 1805, and many people believe they should be returned. I think there's an increasing recognition that the historic behaviour of archaeologists removing artifacts for display wasn't necessarily acceptable, but addressing past wrongs is much harder than preventing new ones.

Lordarminius 10y ago
> Cultural sensitivity has increased ... It has not increased to any degree near adequate. But remove antiquities foreign antiquities from European museums and see how barren the halls and storage become... So I guess 'sensitivity' isn't going to increase any more than present levels.
- virtuabhi 10y ago
  And to return Kohinoor diamond, we will have to remove it from Her Majesty's crown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koh-i-Noor

EliRivers 10y ago

So when westerners dig up mummies in Egypt, cart them to the Louvre and sell tickets for the privilege of visitation, that's historical research No, that's grave robbing. When Westerners did that in the past, it was grave robbing. If they do it now, it's also grave robbing. I suspect a lot of Westerners agree.