6 ms·

>What would any of you think when 500 people from a far away country were placed near your house? You would experience it as a some kind of problem. What a pat

by m3rc 9y ago

>What would any of you think when 500 people from a far away country were placed near your house? You would experience it as a some kind of problem. What a pathetic attempt at a dog-whistle. If you want to start writing anti-immigrant comments just do it, don't doll it up in this bullshit pseudo pragmatism. Not like other people are letting it stop them.

classicsnoot 9y ago
What a pathetic attempt at a dog-whistle. If you want to start calling people racist because you don't like what they wrote just do it, don't doll it up in this bullshit pseudo indignation. Not like other people are letting it stop them.
narrowrail 9y ago
I think zyxzevn is being unfaily treated for this one statement: You would experience it as a some kind of problem. Everything else seems like a plausible characterization of facts.
lacampbell 9y ago
I note you failed to answer the question. There are multiple reasons to be against miss-migration, most of them pragmatic.
- hackuser 9y ago
  > most of them pragmatic I'm not sure how you can count them and say 'most'. Certainly a lot of racism is involved. I've rarely heard many economic analyses or real evidence that provide pragmatic reasons, but that doesn't rule them out.
  - narrowrail 9y ago
    I don't care what race you are (I'm about 3, near as I can tell), but if you think you can control what the women in your life dress like, whether they drive, or if they can live with a man before having some religious ceremony, I'm going to have a cultural problem with inculcation.
    - hackuser 9y ago
      Then perhaps you should welcome the immigrants so that the women will be free. Do you object to immigration by white-skinned males who abuse and/or control women? What about those from cultures where there is widespread racism? What about from countries where tax evasion or heavy drinking is widespread, or where the crime rate is high? Should National Front supporters from France be banned from other countries? Many cultures and people have histories that I disagree with, including my own. There are lots of behaviors I disagree with, including yours. But many of our beliefs about them are stereotypes, and one of our values is that individuals should be judged by their actions, not their skin color or nationality. Also, my preferences are not a basis for law, unless they do significant harm, and not for excluding immigrants. I am not the judge of others; freedom means freedom for others to do things that you don't like - otherwise it's meaningless.
      - lacampbell 9y ago
        Why do you think you have the right to decide immigration policy for other people? It doesn't just affect you - it effects everyone. People have the right to let in whoever they want into their own countries. They can turn people away for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. Also if you think the west is one of the more racist or sexist place in the world you are naive in the extreme. The immigration policies of "far right" European parties are completely mainstream in East Asia. If a party advocated for a similar immigration policy to say, Chinas, they'd be labelled as Nazis and lynched by a diversity mob.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
hyperdunc 9y ago
It didn't read as a dog-whistle to me. It's a scenario that's happening across Europe. The mass import of different cultures is a real problem because it erodes trust and cohesion within communities affected. To put it bluntly, multiculturalism isn't all its cracked up to be. A trickle of immigrants from, for example, east Asia is clearly enriching. The same cannot be said for a mass influx from a culture that holds opposing values. Continuing to deny this will only result in more Brexit-like events.
- hackuser 9y ago
  Do you have any basis for these otherwise baseless allegations? Major cities are filled with immigrants and cultures from all over the world, and are the engines of advanced economies. New York is one very successful example; London is another. In my experience, it's the people with the least experience with immigrants who have the most objection to immigration. > A trickle of immigrants from, for example, east Asia is clearly enriching I don't know what country you are in, but if you are in the West than East Asian nations certainly do not share your 'values'. Visit one of those countries some time. But this comment is outright hateful ethnic stereotyping. One essential Western value is to judge people by their actions individuals, not by the color of their skin, their nationality, their sexual preference, etc. Another is liberty, which doesn't mean liberty to do what someone else happens to like. Every generation of immigrants has the same things said about them: They don't integrate, they speak their own language, they don't share our values, etc. etc. But their kids grow up natives. How sad that you have so little confidence in those values that you don't think they will win over these immigrants just like they've won over every generation of immigrants before them.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    > In my experience, it's the people with the least experience with immigrants who have the most objection to immigration. Same in Germany. The most persistent protests against immigration are in Saxony, where only 3.0% of the population are foreigners (compared to 9.4% national average). Source: https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/Migrationshintergrund/Tabellen/MigrationshintergrundLaender.html https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Be... (I'm looking at the columns specifically titled "Foreigner". "German with migration background" includes additional immigrants that gained German citizenship, but also a whole slew of people who were displaced after WW2 when the German borders were redrawn.)

by m3rc 9y ago

classicsnoot 9y ago

What a pathetic attempt at a dog-whistle. If you want to start calling people racist because you don't like what they wrote just do it, don't doll it up in this bullshit pseudo indignation. Not like other people are letting it stop them.

narrowrail 9y ago

I think zyxzevn is being unfaily treated for this one statement: You would experience it as a some kind of problem. Everything else seems like a plausible characterization of facts.

lacampbell 9y ago

I note you failed to answer the question. There are multiple reasons to be against miss-migration, most of them pragmatic.

hackuser 9y ago
> most of them pragmatic I'm not sure how you can count them and say 'most'. Certainly a lot of racism is involved. I've rarely heard many economic analyses or real evidence that provide pragmatic reasons, but that doesn't rule them out.
- narrowrail 9y ago
  I don't care what race you are (I'm about 3, near as I can tell), but if you think you can control what the women in your life dress like, whether they drive, or if they can live with a man before having some religious ceremony, I'm going to have a cultural problem with inculcation.
  - hackuser 9y ago
    Then perhaps you should welcome the immigrants so that the women will be free. Do you object to immigration by white-skinned males who abuse and/or control women? What about those from cultures where there is widespread racism? What about from countries where tax evasion or heavy drinking is widespread, or where the crime rate is high? Should National Front supporters from France be banned from other countries? Many cultures and people have histories that I disagree with, including my own. There are lots of behaviors I disagree with, including yours. But many of our beliefs about them are stereotypes, and one of our values is that individuals should be judged by their actions, not their skin color or nationality. Also, my preferences are not a basis for law, unless they do significant harm, and not for excluding immigrants. I am not the judge of others; freedom means freedom for others to do things that you don't like - otherwise it's meaningless.
    - lacampbell 9y ago
      Why do you think you have the right to decide immigration policy for other people? It doesn't just affect you - it effects everyone. People have the right to let in whoever they want into their own countries. They can turn people away for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. Also if you think the west is one of the more racist or sexist place in the world you are naive in the extreme. The immigration policies of "far right" European parties are completely mainstream in East Asia. If a party advocated for a similar immigration policy to say, Chinas, they'd be labelled as Nazis and lynched by a diversity mob.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

hyperdunc 9y ago

It didn't read as a dog-whistle to me. It's a scenario that's happening across Europe. The mass import of different cultures is a real problem because it erodes trust and cohesion within communities affected. To put it bluntly, multiculturalism isn't all its cracked up to be. A trickle of immigrants from, for example, east Asia is clearly enriching. The same cannot be said for a mass influx from a culture that holds opposing values. Continuing to deny this will only result in more Brexit-like events.

hackuser 9y ago
Do you have any basis for these otherwise baseless allegations? Major cities are filled with immigrants and cultures from all over the world, and are the engines of advanced economies. New York is one very successful example; London is another. In my experience, it's the people with the least experience with immigrants who have the most objection to immigration. > A trickle of immigrants from, for example, east Asia is clearly enriching I don't know what country you are in, but if you are in the West than East Asian nations certainly do not share your 'values'. Visit one of those countries some time. But this comment is outright hateful ethnic stereotyping. One essential Western value is to judge people by their actions individuals, not by the color of their skin, their nationality, their sexual preference, etc. Another is liberty, which doesn't mean liberty to do what someone else happens to like. Every generation of immigrants has the same things said about them: They don't integrate, they speak their own language, they don't share our values, etc. etc. But their kids grow up natives. How sad that you have so little confidence in those values that you don't think they will win over these immigrants just like they've won over every generation of immigrants before them.
- majewsky 9y ago
  > In my experience, it's the people with the least experience with immigrants who have the most objection to immigration. Same in Germany. The most persistent protests against immigration are in Saxony, where only 3.0% of the population are foreigners (compared to 9.4% national average). Source: https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/Migrationshintergrund/Tabellen/MigrationshintergrundLaender.html https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Be... (I'm looking at the columns specifically titled "Foreigner". "German with migration background" includes additional immigrants that gained German citizenship, but also a whole slew of people who were displaced after WW2 when the German borders were redrawn.)