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I think the main benefit of a graphical language, as opposed to text-based is the rapid feedback loop. You see the response after every click. This is the same

I think the main benefit of a graphical language, as opposed to text-based is the rapid feedback loop. You see the response after every click. This is the same reason so many people can build complex spreadsheets, yet wouldn't know where to start if you put them in front of an IDE. I brought a book 'Computer coding for kids by Carol Vorderman' for a friend's daughters for Xmas (aged 6 and 8, both VERY bright with grades above their age groups). As learning to program makes you think differently, especially problem solving skills. It's gone down really well. Especially with older one who spends hours reading the book, even when she doesn't have computer access (and is now set on buying Chromebook with her pocket money). A language such as Scratch is great for sparking initial interest, before going on to more depth.

WillPostForFood 9y ago
You are right that it is the rapid feedback that really helps with teaching. I don't think you need a graphical language though, just an IDE oriented toward rapid feedback. Putting a 3rd grader in Eclipse and having to compile and build a jar to see the effects of a line of code would be horrible. But IDEs like Processing Development Environment or Dr.Racket have great tight feedback loops.
- velox_io 9y ago
  True, it's kind of a shame that more of the features from Bred Victor's demos haven't made it into mainstream IDE's, such as:- Inventing on Principle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII (He has a handful of great demos on Youtube and Vimeo). Another interesting source is Epic's Unreal Engine Dev tools - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshYHUvLaDc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshYHUvLaDc
- mpweiher 9y ago
  > You are right that it is the rapid feedback that really helps with teaching And possibly with obtaining an intuition about whatever it is that you are manipulating. Maybe "direct manipulation" is mostly about that rapid feedback, rather than the concreteness of the objects? I know that when I hooked up an "as-you-type" evaluator[1] to my experimental programming language[2], I learned more about problems with the language in a minute than I had previously in days or weeks. The feedback bandwidth is incredible, and the short cycle times have a more than linear effect. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sypkOhE-ufs&t=57s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sypkOhE-ufs&t=57s [2] http://objective.st http://objective.st

WillPostForFood 9y ago

You are right that it is the rapid feedback that really helps with teaching. I don't think you need a graphical language though, just an IDE oriented toward rapid feedback. Putting a 3rd grader in Eclipse and having to compile and build a jar to see the effects of a line of code would be horrible. But IDEs like Processing Development Environment or Dr.Racket have great tight feedback loops.

velox_io 9y ago
True, it's kind of a shame that more of the features from Bred Victor's demos haven't made it into mainstream IDE's, such as:- Inventing on Principle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv66718DII (He has a handful of great demos on Youtube and Vimeo). Another interesting source is Epic's Unreal Engine Dev tools - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshYHUvLaDc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshYHUvLaDc
mpweiher 9y ago
> You are right that it is the rapid feedback that really helps with teaching And possibly with obtaining an intuition about whatever it is that you are manipulating. Maybe "direct manipulation" is mostly about that rapid feedback, rather than the concreteness of the objects? I know that when I hooked up an "as-you-type" evaluator[1] to my experimental programming language[2], I learned more about problems with the language in a minute than I had previously in days or weeks. The feedback bandwidth is incredible, and the short cycle times have a more than linear effect. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sypkOhE-ufs&t=57s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sypkOhE-ufs&t=57s [2] http://objective.st http://objective.st