4 ms·

apple and ibm were directly responsible for the import taxes. not the other way around. the clones by cce and others were done in clean room. so apple and ibm

by gcb0 10y ago

apple and ibm were directly responsible for the import taxes. not the other way around. the clones by cce and others were done in clean room. so apple and ibm and texas Instrument had no legal recourse. but after brazilian clones started to sell like hot cakes in europe, they convinced the usa state department to intervine and treaten to stop importing oranges from brazil. since most generals on the dictatorship had huge orange farms they caved in. and thats is the only reason why to this day that country have 80% tax on imported electronics. the dictatorship also gave in to demands for other markets, like telecom and tv. globo (largest tv station) was started with american capital, but after seeing the profit prospects, the generals were quick to nationalize it and cut the americans investors out. the only thing that saved brazil in terms of technology were the "micreiros". people who would buy imported computers in Paraguay and sell them illegally in brazil. Those folks deserve a national monument!

rbanffy 10y ago
This is incorrect. The board layout of the Apple II+ clones, with some notable exceptions (Spectrum, Magnex and one Dismac model, IIRC), were replicas of the original. The ROMs had error messages translated, but kept original lengths. Brazilian clones were never sold in Europe (or anywhere else) and were not price-competitive anywhere except in Brazil where finished computer imports were completely forbidden. The orange tax story appears when Unitron was seeking government approval to import components to build what was a clean-room implementation of the Mac. Generals were not involved in that - it was the first democratic government after the dictatorship that made the decision. Apple demonstrated a prototype running with Apple ROMs, which were never intended to be used in the production machines, and that was why the US government got involved. Globo was always a private editorial group. They aligned themselves with the military government and benefited from that.
- gcb0 10y ago
  ok, it was something in between. it all happened in 1985, last year of the official dictatorship (followed by a non-elected president, because the indirectly elected one died before even being sworn in. but let's not even go in there...) http://www.brasilwire.com/the-1980s-trade-war-between-brasil-and-apple/ http://www.brasilwire.com/the-1980s-trade-war-between-brasil... "No, the first Macintosh clone was the Unitron Mac 512, a unauthorized copy of the 512k “Fat Mac” produced by a Brazilian company in 1986. And it was a pretty darn impressive copy. The fallout from that effort nearly helped start a trade war between Brasil and the United States; to prevent theft of Intellectual Property, Apple and other companies lobbied Congress to hike import taxes on Brazilian goods like oranges and shoes as a response." In the lawsuit, apple claimed it was a copy, Unitron claimed it was a cleanroom effort. What was what we will never know. and i am messing up other CPU clones that sold in europe (and eastern europe) from brazil, that ultimately died because of the repercussion of the Unitron case. Prologica and Microdigital I think. and Globo bootstraped its television with a investment from Time-Life in 62. It is always removed from en wikipedia, but it is mentioned on pt wikipedia. But search for the date and the two companies, and you will find tons of academic articles about that.
  - rbanffy 10y ago
    I know the guy who was writing the firmware. Some sources still exist, even though I couldn't find anything ROMable. It was publicly demonstrated using modified Apple ROMs though. The hardware was also subtly different, using a CAV 3.5 floppy with manual insertion/extraction instead of the CLV with assisted insertion/extraction used in the Mac. Microdigital made Sinclair clones (ZX-81, Spectrum), one Micro Professor clone and Prologica made Sinclair (ZX-80, 81), TRS-80 (III) and Superbrain clones, but never an Apple one. I'd be surprised if any of those was exported.
cwyers 10y ago
This seems odd. Why would Apple and IBM want their products taxed by Brazil in response to the Brazilian clones? How did that stop the clones from being sold in Europe?
- gcb0 10y ago
  you kill the industry. keep the country stealing your high tech consumers as a third world provider of non industrial goods. brazil exports today are still oranges, soy and cattle
  - cwyers 10y ago
    How does an import tax do that, though? Other countries use those to protect domestic industry from competition.

by gcb0 10y ago

rbanffy 10y ago

This is incorrect. The board layout of the Apple II+ clones, with some notable exceptions (Spectrum, Magnex and one Dismac model, IIRC), were replicas of the original. The ROMs had error messages translated, but kept original lengths. Brazilian clones were never sold in Europe (or anywhere else) and were not price-competitive anywhere except in Brazil where finished computer imports were completely forbidden. The orange tax story appears when Unitron was seeking government approval to import components to build what was a clean-room implementation of the Mac. Generals were not involved in that - it was the first democratic government after the dictatorship that made the decision. Apple demonstrated a prototype running with Apple ROMs, which were never intended to be used in the production machines, and that was why the US government got involved. Globo was always a private editorial group. They aligned themselves with the military government and benefited from that.

gcb0 10y ago
ok, it was something in between. it all happened in 1985, last year of the official dictatorship (followed by a non-elected president, because the indirectly elected one died before even being sworn in. but let's not even go in there...) http://www.brasilwire.com/the-1980s-trade-war-between-brasil-and-apple/ http://www.brasilwire.com/the-1980s-trade-war-between-brasil... "No, the first Macintosh clone was the Unitron Mac 512, a unauthorized copy of the 512k “Fat Mac” produced by a Brazilian company in 1986. And it was a pretty darn impressive copy. The fallout from that effort nearly helped start a trade war between Brasil and the United States; to prevent theft of Intellectual Property, Apple and other companies lobbied Congress to hike import taxes on Brazilian goods like oranges and shoes as a response." In the lawsuit, apple claimed it was a copy, Unitron claimed it was a cleanroom effort. What was what we will never know. and i am messing up other CPU clones that sold in europe (and eastern europe) from brazil, that ultimately died because of the repercussion of the Unitron case. Prologica and Microdigital I think. and Globo bootstraped its television with a investment from Time-Life in 62. It is always removed from en wikipedia, but it is mentioned on pt wikipedia. But search for the date and the two companies, and you will find tons of academic articles about that.
- rbanffy 10y ago
  I know the guy who was writing the firmware. Some sources still exist, even though I couldn't find anything ROMable. It was publicly demonstrated using modified Apple ROMs though. The hardware was also subtly different, using a CAV 3.5 floppy with manual insertion/extraction instead of the CLV with assisted insertion/extraction used in the Mac. Microdigital made Sinclair clones (ZX-81, Spectrum), one Micro Professor clone and Prologica made Sinclair (ZX-80, 81), TRS-80 (III) and Superbrain clones, but never an Apple one. I'd be surprised if any of those was exported.

cwyers 10y ago

This seems odd. Why would Apple and IBM want their products taxed by Brazil in response to the Brazilian clones? How did that stop the clones from being sold in Europe?

gcb0 10y ago
you kill the industry. keep the country stealing your high tech consumers as a third world provider of non industrial goods. brazil exports today are still oranges, soy and cattle
- cwyers 10y ago
  How does an import tax do that, though? Other countries use those to protect domestic industry from competition.