5 ms·

> trumpeting unisex bathrooms is taking a side, implying a public normative claim Yeah, or, it's just making trans people comfortable at the conference in a wa

> trumpeting unisex bathrooms is taking a side, implying a public normative claim Yeah, or, it's just making trans people comfortable at the conference in a way that impedes absolutely nobody from doing anything, other than shouting at someone for using the 'wrong' bathroom. Why does this make people so itchy?

djsumdog 9y ago
I'm for people using whatever toilet they want, but this is usually beyond what the organizing comities can do anyway. There are state laws and rules for the hotel/convention centre that they probably have to abide by. I mean there is the bigger question of why the hell do we even separate toilets by male/female to begin with? That's a more anthropological question that we could debate for hours. I think the author was just using this as one example, and it's probably not the best one.
- comex 9y ago
  > I'm for people using whatever toilet they want, but this is usually beyond what the organizing comities can do anyway. There are state laws and rules for the hotel/convention centre that they probably have to abide by. I'm not aware of any such laws, and I don't see any indication that the convention center was complaining about it - only ESR. > I mean there is the bigger question of why the hell do we even separate toilets by male/female to begin with? That's a more anthropological question that we could debate for hours. Honestly, this is the kind of archaic social convention that I'd expect "hackers" to be happy to overthrow. To me, gender neutral bathrooms seem like a great example of the very quote that ESR cites in his complaint: The hacker culture’s norm about inclusion is clear: anybody who can pull the freight is welcome, and twitching about things like skin color or shape of genitalia or what thing you like to stick into what thing is beyond wrong into silly.
  - djsumdog 9y ago
    The State of Washington was trying to push a law banning people from their non-biological gender from using the wrong restroom. It failed though. But there are many people in various states and municipalities pushing laws for for bathroom use: https://news.google.com/news/search?tbm=nws&q=bathroom%20law https://news.google.com/news/search?tbm=nws&q=bathroom%20law
  - DanBC 9y ago
    >and I don't see any indication that the convention center was complaining about it - only ESR The convention wanted gender neutral toilets. The hotel has existing toilets, and they're not gender neutral (I guess because of urinals and because of bins / vending machines for sanitary products, as well as signage) and so they declined that request. I agree with you about gender neutral toilets. I don't understand why some people are so hostile to the idea.
    - comex 9y ago
      > The hotel has existing toilets, and they're not gender neutral (I guess because of urinals and because of bins / vending machines for sanitary products, as well as signage) and so they declined that request. Ah, my mistake. For reference, not all hosts respond that way: some recent high-profile conventions have successfully temporarily designated restrooms as gender neutral, including CCC (hacking conference) last year in Germany and the Democratic National Convention in the US.

djsumdog 9y ago

I'm for people using whatever toilet they want, but this is usually beyond what the organizing comities can do anyway. There are state laws and rules for the hotel/convention centre that they probably have to abide by. I mean there is the bigger question of why the hell do we even separate toilets by male/female to begin with? That's a more anthropological question that we could debate for hours. I think the author was just using this as one example, and it's probably not the best one.

comex 9y ago
> I'm for people using whatever toilet they want, but this is usually beyond what the organizing comities can do anyway. There are state laws and rules for the hotel/convention centre that they probably have to abide by. I'm not aware of any such laws, and I don't see any indication that the convention center was complaining about it - only ESR. > I mean there is the bigger question of why the hell do we even separate toilets by male/female to begin with? That's a more anthropological question that we could debate for hours. Honestly, this is the kind of archaic social convention that I'd expect "hackers" to be happy to overthrow. To me, gender neutral bathrooms seem like a great example of the very quote that ESR cites in his complaint: The hacker culture’s norm about inclusion is clear: anybody who can pull the freight is welcome, and twitching about things like skin color or shape of genitalia or what thing you like to stick into what thing is beyond wrong into silly.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  The State of Washington was trying to push a law banning people from their non-biological gender from using the wrong restroom. It failed though. But there are many people in various states and municipalities pushing laws for for bathroom use: https://news.google.com/news/search?tbm=nws&q=bathroom%20law https://news.google.com/news/search?tbm=nws&q=bathroom%20law
- DanBC 9y ago
  >and I don't see any indication that the convention center was complaining about it - only ESR The convention wanted gender neutral toilets. The hotel has existing toilets, and they're not gender neutral (I guess because of urinals and because of bins / vending machines for sanitary products, as well as signage) and so they declined that request. I agree with you about gender neutral toilets. I don't understand why some people are so hostile to the idea.
  - comex 9y ago
    > The hotel has existing toilets, and they're not gender neutral (I guess because of urinals and because of bins / vending machines for sanitary products, as well as signage) and so they declined that request. Ah, my mistake. For reference, not all hosts respond that way: some recent high-profile conventions have successfully temporarily designated restrooms as gender neutral, including CCC (hacking conference) last year in Germany and the Democratic National Convention in the US.