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> we rely on symbiotic bacteria to digest food All I know of are colon-dwelling bacteria fermenting and otherwise breaking down "indigestable residue" ("fibre"

> we rely on symbiotic bacteria to digest food All I know of are colon-dwelling bacteria fermenting and otherwise breaking down "indigestable residue" ("fibre", cellulose, seeds etc --- which certainly helps voiding such roughage and may furnish some butyrate and possibly a few B-vitamins to the colon mucosa in the process) and other refuse. Do you host bacteria in your small intestine, the prime site of digestion and absorption? Or do you count the colon as a site of "digestion"? Maybe I have the wrong understanding of the word..

chiefalchemist 9y ago
For the most part the phrase "the gut" seems to be in fashion. I'm not so sure we know much about what's going on where, when and by what "third parties." From what I understand, we have bacteria on the skin as well. And that full body washing with soap might not be a great idea. Sure, get the obvious dirty bits ;) but the rest probably just need a water wash.
- dualogy 9y ago
  Now that you mentioned it, I took a look and behold, TIL! There are microbes in the small intestine indeed: https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Small_Intestine https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Small_Intestine And among many other non-digestive contributions, they do contribute to furnishing short-chain fatty acids and K+B vitamins from incoming substances. Glad I looked that up then =)
  - chiefalchemist 9y ago
    Fwiw, the watershed moment for me was an article in the NY Times Magazine approx 3 yrs ago about gut bacteria. Blew. My. Mind. As a side note, one of the key takeaways I extrapolated from that article was bacteria have a direct effect on life expectancy. For example, they say, when you have a partner you're likely to live longer. But is that love, or because you get to swap bacteria? The same for having pets. They too help to strengthen the system within your body. And so on. Sometimes I wonder if we're more bacteria than we are human. That is, who is the host and who is the "parasite."
    - dualogy 9y ago
      An interesting question with the partner or pet example for me is whether it's truly "win-win" --- do both "live longer" or one does and the other now lives less longer, unwittingly =)
      - pavel_lishin 9y ago
        I always assumed that most of the health benefits came from things like increased social interaction, and the simple fact that if you have a heart attack or stroke or a fall, someone's there to dial 911. I imagine that for the social aspect of it, it's only a win/lose if one person gets more stress than joy out of the relationship.
        chiefalchemist 9y ago
        I think that's the standard interpretation (i.e., human interaction is the lifesaver). However, when you start to drill down on the whole (gut) bacteria thing, I think things change. Sure, emotions also have impact on the immune system, but so do bacteria. Love IS a powerful emotion. As bacteria are as well ;) The irony (?) is gut bacteria have also been linked to mental conditions / emotions. I love you...because your gut told my gut to say that? :)
      - chiefalchemist 9y ago
        To be clear, the article didn't connect those dots. I did. It did say current indications are gut diversity is a good thing. That such things impact life expectancy. It also said partners / family effect gut diversity, as do pets. I'm sure emotions also play a role (as - e.g., - depression is bad for the immune system). But, best I can extrapolate, the gut also plays a role. But the details science has been done. Yet.
  - chiefalchemist 9y ago
    I think it's worth adding that, for me, gut bacteria are a MAJOR argument against GMOs. The gut is a VERY complex system, a system at this point that we have little true understanding about. We're just now scratching the surface. There's no telling how changes in food "makeup" can effect the gut. I don't want to get off topic but it was worth mentioning.
arkades 9y ago
> Do you host bacteria in your small intestine, the prime site of digestion and absorption? Yes, actually. The idea that the small intestine doesn't host bacteria, and those that it does are transient passers-by from the oral mucosa, was due to some technically limited work from the 1950s. It was actually laughably easy to find that wasn't the case - there's a transition zone of gram positives to gram negatives throughout the latter ileum, which sharply switches to high numbers of gram negatives, anaerobes, coliforms, on the distal side of the iliocecal valve. The intestinal bacteria also play a key role in furnishing vitamin K. And yes, the colon is a site of digestion. Digestion is the process of food breakdown, nutrient extraction, and waste elimination. The colon is involved in some extraction (primarily vitamin production, and water reabsorption) and elimination; admittedly, not so much with breakdown.

chiefalchemist 9y ago

For the most part the phrase "the gut" seems to be in fashion. I'm not so sure we know much about what's going on where, when and by what "third parties." From what I understand, we have bacteria on the skin as well. And that full body washing with soap might not be a great idea. Sure, get the obvious dirty bits ;) but the rest probably just need a water wash.

dualogy 9y ago
Now that you mentioned it, I took a look and behold, TIL! There are microbes in the small intestine indeed: https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Small_Intestine https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Small_Intestine And among many other non-digestive contributions, they do contribute to furnishing short-chain fatty acids and K+B vitamins from incoming substances. Glad I looked that up then =)
- chiefalchemist 9y ago
  Fwiw, the watershed moment for me was an article in the NY Times Magazine approx 3 yrs ago about gut bacteria. Blew. My. Mind. As a side note, one of the key takeaways I extrapolated from that article was bacteria have a direct effect on life expectancy. For example, they say, when you have a partner you're likely to live longer. But is that love, or because you get to swap bacteria? The same for having pets. They too help to strengthen the system within your body. And so on. Sometimes I wonder if we're more bacteria than we are human. That is, who is the host and who is the "parasite."
  - dualogy 9y ago
    An interesting question with the partner or pet example for me is whether it's truly "win-win" --- do both "live longer" or one does and the other now lives less longer, unwittingly =)
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      I always assumed that most of the health benefits came from things like increased social interaction, and the simple fact that if you have a heart attack or stroke or a fall, someone's there to dial 911. I imagine that for the social aspect of it, it's only a win/lose if one person gets more stress than joy out of the relationship.
      - chiefalchemist 9y ago
        I think that's the standard interpretation (i.e., human interaction is the lifesaver). However, when you start to drill down on the whole (gut) bacteria thing, I think things change. Sure, emotions also have impact on the immune system, but so do bacteria. Love IS a powerful emotion. As bacteria are as well ;) The irony (?) is gut bacteria have also been linked to mental conditions / emotions. I love you...because your gut told my gut to say that? :)
    - chiefalchemist 9y ago
      To be clear, the article didn't connect those dots. I did. It did say current indications are gut diversity is a good thing. That such things impact life expectancy. It also said partners / family effect gut diversity, as do pets. I'm sure emotions also play a role (as - e.g., - depression is bad for the immune system). But, best I can extrapolate, the gut also plays a role. But the details science has been done. Yet.
- chiefalchemist 9y ago
  I think it's worth adding that, for me, gut bacteria are a MAJOR argument against GMOs. The gut is a VERY complex system, a system at this point that we have little true understanding about. We're just now scratching the surface. There's no telling how changes in food "makeup" can effect the gut. I don't want to get off topic but it was worth mentioning.

arkades 9y ago

> Do you host bacteria in your small intestine, the prime site of digestion and absorption? Yes, actually. The idea that the small intestine doesn't host bacteria, and those that it does are transient passers-by from the oral mucosa, was due to some technically limited work from the 1950s. It was actually laughably easy to find that wasn't the case - there's a transition zone of gram positives to gram negatives throughout the latter ileum, which sharply switches to high numbers of gram negatives, anaerobes, coliforms, on the distal side of the iliocecal valve. The intestinal bacteria also play a key role in furnishing vitamin K. And yes, the colon is a site of digestion. Digestion is the process of food breakdown, nutrient extraction, and waste elimination. The colon is involved in some extraction (primarily vitamin production, and water reabsorption) and elimination; admittedly, not so much with breakdown.